Random Food Questions Thread - Page 277

I saw a video on this once. The guy described "simmer" as one, two, or just a few bubbles on the surface on a consistent basis. A rolling boil was a surface covered with bubbles. The visual kinda helped break it down for me.

yeah, when you think about it, it's kind of obvious. If you've got a rolling boil and turn the heat down, you get a simmer. so the simmer must be cooler, right?

actually, it's not obvious at all. i mean, it's obvious the difference between a rolling boil and a simmer, visually. but once you understand what latent heat is you understand that you can be adding more or less heat to a liquid while it is at its transition temp without changing the temp, only the rapidity at which you are actually transforming the liquid to gas.

in that case, you're certainly correct and you should continue in your belief that a simmer and a boil are the same. enjoy!

i love the taste of fresh sardines salted and pan fried, but i spend all my time picking out a gazillion bones. i end up eating half the bones anyways, but it's just so damn annoying. i've tried doing butterfly filets on them, but i still get a lot of bones and i feel like i'm wasting a lot of meat.

how do i prepare sardines?

Ha!

No, really, I'm not trying to be a dick. I am willing to believe you. Obviously you are far, far more knowledgable than me in these matters.

But usually I want to understand the science behind something (because it's a lot easier to understand what's really happening scientifically and use that knowledge to understand more about cooking, rather than just following rote rules) and usually it makes a lot of sense to me.

My understanding is that water bubbles because gas is forming. Gas forms after the water has been heated to 212. Ipso facto, any bubbles mean it's 212. I'm just quibbling with what you say is "obvious" because I think latent heat explains what you're talking about with turning the heat down without invalidating that 212 is 212 and bubbles can't/won't form below that.

I'm just trying to square what I think I know with what you're saying, that's all. No snark intended.

Edit: I'm also not saying a rolling boil and a simmer will function identically in cooking. Obviously a simmer is more "gentle" physically and that's what I've always understood about how you keep a stock clear - the literal physical jostling creates the cloudiness. Again, the science makign sense is how you square pressure cooking (where the pressure above the liquid prevents the bubbling from occurring in the first place in spite of the same temp) for making stocks. But, vis-a-vis a braise, where I'm told the temp is the key (and I do understand the bit about the temps at which the collagens break down), I'm just not understanding how it's possible for bubbles to form at less than 212.

clearly bro the difference between boiling and simmering is the speed at which gas forms. at a higher uniform temperature gas forms more quickly. latent heat (which is really just temperature stability at the point of a phase change) adds little to the discussion.

simmering is cooler because there is less water circulation


lol dude. the entire pot of water is not at 212 degrees. temperature is the AVERAGE speed of the particles. some water molecules form bubbles because they reach 212 degrees whereas others didn't so they don't form bubbles

The spirit is willing but the flesh is spongy and bruised.

shouldn't have gotten so snappy. sorry. i don't have the material in front of me to answer that question conclusively. my guess is that what is happening is that the early bubbling stages are caused by localized temperatures and that the full rolling boil is when the entire volume (or as near as possible) has been heated to that point.

You take out the back and rib bones and just eat the rest.

Re braising, the temperature of a simmer is high enough to make the cells squeeze out any moisture in them, so I don't think the idea is keeping the meat "moist." Moisture, or the feeling of moisture, in long cooked food comes from collagen transformation, not retained cellular moisture. As far as a higher temp boil, I don't know that it, in and of itself, is problematic, since meat stewed in a pressure cooker is often great. I imagine it is problematic for some other reason. Just my thoughts. Certainly the sauce is worse at a high boil because the fat and liquids emulsify leading to bad tasting shit.

Remember where the heat comes from. It's the stove top. And therefore the bottom of the pot. If the bottom of the pot is over 212°F, which it most likely is, there will be extra air bubbles. If you boil it, more or less all the water is 212°F. If you gently simmer, the water might have 200°F or whatever, but the extra heat from the bottom of the pot lets the water in that area evaporate.

I hope you understand what I mean and that it's somehow correct.

Edit: What fg said.

This makes sense.

do you pull the bones out after or before cooking?

Depends on the dish. I generally fillet them first, but sometimes I cook them whole, in which case I eat them off the bone. I don't fillet them after cooking and before serving.

LOL at foodguy - yes, I put bay leaves in anything I stew or braise.