Poll: Attolini vs. Rubinacci vs. Steed - Page 17

A familiar sequence from the last three years if SF:

Me: posts new suit.

SF: that looks too new.

Me: well, it is new. But, what do you mean?

SF: no wrinkles. No sagging.

Me: well, for an old suit, that's maintenance. An attribute if something is made well is stability of appearance over time. It should look great on the first day and then great afterward.

SF: that's because you only wear something once.

Me: well, I'm old. Here's something from twenty years ago...Brioni MTM.

SF: that's not old. That's new. There's no wrinkling or sagging.

Me: well, it was made and fitted tolerably well. It's been sponged and pressed also by a tailor.

SF: sorry, that's not what I see in the Sartorialist or WAYWRN.

Me: wait a second...Despos, you Beldoniab fwocker!

Despos: vox, you ate easy prey.


- B

I ask again, you seriously can't see the flaw in this logic?

I suspect you can but like a lot of your buddies you hold a double standard. It's fine for non-tailors you like to talk about tailoring but when people you don't like do it, well then, any weapon at hand, including credentialism.

Vox, you have a 20 year old Brioni, made to measure? Jesus, man, you look like you're in your late 30s, early 40s at best! This can only mean one thing: Vox's prom dinner jacket was Brioni MTM. Ahhhhh, prom. Memories...

I think there are some people who feel the need to use technical reasons to back up their preferences. It's just not in clothes, but cars, stereos, cameras, watches, computers, etc. --- maybe it's a guy thing. For the things I know something about, those technical reasons are often bogus, so I assume that it is the same for clothing, too.

But I did find tutee's post very useful, if for nothing else than providing a catalog of things that can go wrong with pants. My eyes glazed over the tailoring mumbo-jumbo.

--Andre

Is mumbo-jumbo a technical term

Absolutely

mum·bo jum·bo noun \\ˌməm-bō-ˈjəm-(ˌ)bō\\- sh*t my tailor says

I tried to quote your earlier post but it is too long for the iPhone edit field.

Well done.

- B

An iGent could start a blog with that title, and become a minor celebrity.

--Andre

Firstly, I don't dislike you, I don't know you. I do not hate someone because they disagree with me on a clothing forum about the subject of clothing. I have told you this before. Secondly, as I've said elsewhere in this thread I've nothing against people talking about tailoring if a suit doesn't fit, it doesn't fit you don't need to be a tailor to realise that. However, there are limits. In your field, that is studying classical texts which requires training and scholarship, in tailoring as with any craft it's technical and practical training and because of this practical element it isn't enough to just read books on cutting, sewing etc. You have to be 'doing' it. Also, if you ask a tailor or any craftsperson for that matter they'll tell you that they only really start to learn once they've finished their apprenticeship. Just to reiterate, I don't think talking about tailoring is verboten, if I said this or inferred it, it's not what I meant. However, there comes a point were credentials and training do matter.

You know nothing about my field, or even what it is.

That aside, no one here is giving advice on how to cut and sew. The tutee post that you shat upon doesn't do that. It does explain certain things for those who are interested to learn them. Sometimes the best in a given field are not too good at explaining what they do or how or why. They do it well but communication is not their strong suit. Someone like tutee has an adept mind and can learn and communicate information even if he can't personally execute every operation that he describes.

And I don't read in his post any actual advice on making. Rather he is simply explaining how certain concepts and operations affect the finished product.

Finally--and I am suprised that I should need to point this out--the acid test is whether his information is accurate or not. Tailors are not gods, not even the one who calls himself a god. They can blow it as easily as anyone else. I've had tailors tell me some real whoppers in my time. Just because it comes from a "tailor" that doesn't automatically make it correct. Similarly, an explanation from a non-tailor is not ipso facto wrong.

Wait, we're not?



Damn.

+100 Also, I don't understand the rush to trust whatever a tailor or merchant says on the forums. Part of the reason this forum has worked for so long is that it makes would-be clients and customers more informed. Someone who's got something to sell or a professional reputation to uphold is not without motive to mislead. That's why I value posts by people like Despos and jefferyd: they don't merely rest on their status as tailors to convince. Rather, they provide substantive explanations. Even if you don't ultimately agree, you have something to think about and there is fruit for discussion. In contrast, I have very little respect for certain individuals who use, as you say, "credentialism" to make a point. It's odd to me that George doesn't find that patronizing and pretentious.

Demi.

Well shit. Now Despos and I need to make new business cards.

My guess is that some of a tailor's favorite clients are the ones that really appreciate the craft, want to learn as much as possible about it, and understand what makes his particular work special. In contrast, I imagine the absolute worst clients are the ones who think they know the craft and direct the tailor as if he was a mere technician. Lastly, I suppose it can be very difficult to discern between the two. Do I have it right? This rings like truth to me. But it seems widely experienced that certain heavier cloths take time to soften up and contour more pleasingly to the body. The best personal example I can think of is my heavy donegal Thornproof jacket. Now, if cloth is heavy or stiff, my question is whether wearing it in might make a jacket fit better through a wider range of motion and postures, though it may not correct a fundamental error. For example, while wearing-in may not fix a fundamentally loose collar, could it at least make a collar hug the neck more consistently?