Originally Posted by Roger
Interesting analysis. Do you feel that a very well-tied half-Windsor or FIH knot in a tie that is not dimpled represents a slovenly presentation? It seems, from your "millions upon millions" paragraph, that not dimpling is barbaric simply because the wearer doesn't know about the dimple. But what if, while not knowing about it, he does a beautiful job with a lovely undimpled tie, and the rest of his ensemble is great? Is that man slovenly? What if you're a guy who knows what the dimple is and chooses to eschew it, all the while dressing very well in all respects? Is that contrived? Or if you're like many who, like Iammatt, go with the presentation that looks good when first tied, dimpled or otherwise? It seems as if losing the dimple would not cause too much harm by your reasoning since you have indicated that the rare person in the know might be impressed with this presentation and the millions upon millions of others in our world will never know that such a thing exists!
I thought we were discussing the merit of the advice gleaned from the paragraph from manton's book? I think it is poor advice to the general audience. First of all some may never have heard of a tie dimple, then it gets quickly dismissed as too studied. What would the average suit wearer get from that paragraph? Maybe he needed a chart on dimples and dimpleless knots?
I rarely see men tie their ties well, dimple or otherwise. Can someone tie their tie well without being in the know? Of course. I learned to do it with little more reference than my Dad's clumsy full windsor as an example. It worked on him, I dont like it. Plus with a 17.5 inch neck, lots of luck wrapping it around that many times without it ending at my sternum. Can the absence of a dimple work on people who never learned to tie ties? Of course, there are always exceptions.
I admit I find these "rules" tiresome, they seem to exist when they are convenient and then vanish just as quickly when they get in the way of including some advanced exceptions. You (all of us) should learn certain dress basics like dimpling your tie, then you can wear them any way you like. I have seen dimpleless ties worn well by the rare person. However, that paragraph only makes sense to someone who knows a lot about the world of tie tying. Now, why a book about the rules which I would imagine was for new entrants would give confusing advice about tie knots without demonstrations or further explanation is beyond me.
Lets pin the book down, does it speak to the "millions and millions" or does it speak to a handful? Until that's settled once and for all, how could i ever be expected to explain my take on its meaning?