Can US Restaurants Compete? - Page 3

Orange County, so close enough to LA. Rivera sounds intriguing since it would be a good spot to check out pre Lakers game. I may be working on a project just south of Staples in the near future and if so, then I'll make sure to try it out. I don't make it up to LA often, but have been to El Tepayac a couple times the past couple years. Other than that, and it's a hole in the wall in its own right, it's just my local Mexican spots.


This makes alot of sense. I never really think Mexican when deciding on a more expensive dinner.


Yeah I think Orange County just sucks generally when it comes to more upscale eateries. I'll have to try out LA.

i've got a friend who has laker season tickets and when he takes me to the game, i take him to rivera. i figure i'm coming out ahead in the deal, but that's more about the extortionate price of nba tix. let me know when you're going to be downtown.

This got me curious. I checked on Zagats and in the major metropolitan areas of Texas they list 9 Mexican restaurants where the average bill (before drinks) is >$30. 5 of the 9 are in Dallas (not surprising) with 2 in Austin and 1 each in Ft. Worth and Houston. The most expensive places are Lanny's in Ft. Worth ($55pp), Javier's in Dallas ($42pp) and Hugo's in Houston ($40pp).

The $30 cutoff was pretty arbitrary and doesn't include anywhere near all the mid-level places in those cities.

Perhaps its the Texas culture, but the number of mid- to upper-level Mexican places here is pretty high I'd say. Plus you also have to figure that the influence of Mexican tastes on all Southwest regional cuisines as expressed by some of our elite fine dining chefs like Dean Fearing and Stephen Pyles and their ilk wouldn't be counted into this number since they aren't strictly Mexican even though their food is heavily influenced by it.

^^^ Hmm, Hugo's? I've never tried that one. Usually my top-end Mexican (Latin fusion, actually), is Red Onion. But for the most part - like BDC said - when I think expensive, Mexican isn't really first on the list.

I've been to Javier's here quite a number of times. It's a great upscale "boys night" kind of place. In the old days you could smoke cigars in the bar (ah...the good ol' days).

There's another place here in Dallas called Monica's Aca y Alla that's been here forever (>20 years) that's pretty popular. The food's good, but mainly it's because Monica is a transgender (ha!). That was quite an oddity in Dallas, Texas in the mid-80's I can tell you. Nowadays, no one cares as much and I'd suspect her business has fallen off quite a bit as a result.

Lakers tickets for me come by a similar way. Went to a couple games last year when a season ticket holder a friend knows offered him his seats for $100 a piece. They were $400 seats. I just took a look again at the project as I spoke with the client this morning and we are sending him a proposal. we should most likely get the job as I've done work for them in the past. The project's actually in the beautiful South Central LA area, but is only a few minutes from Staples. Assuming we get the project (should) and I work on it, I'll probably be out there around lunch sometime within the next couple weeks.

I like McDonald's French fries better than any French Fries that I have had in any restaurant anywhere in Paris.

one stray thought that occurred to me on the escalator ... one of the big improvements i've seen in the last 25 years of restaurant observing is that at least now the chefs tend to have better culinary backgrounds than they used to. that wasn't necessarily the case ... you'd have chefs who had really never eaten much more than fast food trying to create fancy dishes based on what they'd read in a book or a magazine. led to some real monstrosities.

London.

This has me interested. Can anyone think of a national cuisine which is better in a country foreign to its creation?

Ive heard people claim that Sushi resturants are better in California than Japan but i think that might just be 'better value'. I must admit i preferred Indian in London than India but that was probably because i didnt eat at many Muslim/Sikh run places in India and i like meat.

US restaurants cannot compete in general. The population is disgustingly poorly educated, and for most people, chain restaurants are the norm, and steakhouses are like a once a year type splurge. At the top end, I don't have any problem with the great US restaurants competing favorably with great French establishments. As far as Alinea goes, it's the flavor that sets it apart for me, not the spectacular invention. I've had about ten 20+ course meals at Alinea, and can think of at least a few dishes which I would say are among the best things I've ever eaten in my life. I think Achatz understands "comfort" food extremely well, and essentially relies on what we find familiar more so than trying to surprise us. I'm also reminded of a recent meal at Tru - I had a celeriac soup which may possibly be the best soup I've had in my life, I'm not sure. I'm quite familiar with Paris and have worked in some fine french restaurants. I will say that owning a great restaurant and even going to one might be a little different than in the USA. Both create a sense of occasion, and both are rare experiences, but going to a great French restaurant in France is about the elevation of the familiar, whereas going to somewhere like Tru, is very much an occasion, because realistically, you are not libel to eat that well on a daily basis, whereas the gulf between 3 Stars and average bistro/resto level cooking is much closer together in France. I do think that the typical American foodie is extremely annoying. In some ways it can be an emperor's new clothes scenario, one sophist among a crowd of philistines. In France good food is expected because it is a way of life, whereas in America people almost seem to reward themselves for knowing what good food is. Whenever I go to a great restaurant in the US, I cannot help but feeling like what's going on around me is slightly provincial.

Give Babita in Alhambra a try. Mexican is such a comfort food for me and a lot of other people, probably another reason it has the 'street food' persona.

I'm no expert or well versed enough to really have a point, but I'd side that the US can compete. I tend to agree with that Lebovitz blog. I loved eating in Paris and had some great food. I ate at a mere 2 star nearly back to back with Chez Panisse, and the comparo was revelatory. At first glance both seem to do the same haute cuisine, but really the styles couldn't be more unique. French was all about technique, a bit earthy and deep. "Cal Cuisine" was indeed big, bold, and flavorful; but it was nuanced and balanced. Both were world class and I'd give CA the edge in produce.

Now bakeries in the US, sigh... don't get me started

I disagree wholeheartedly with the idea that US restaurants cannot compete, in fact, I'm surprised by the suggestion. I think the dining scene in this country has made tremendous strides in the last two decades and is on par with, if not above, the rest of the world. It may seem contradictory, but I do agree with the second part of your statement. The average diner in the US is perfectly content with the mediocrity of chain fare, and the average restaurant in the US is probably not as good as the average restaurant in, say, France. I think a better comparison to address Matt's question is the top quarter of restaurants. I think the average American restaurant will be lower in quality simply due to the size of the US and the fact that there is an enormous agricultural complex that exists not only to supply the US with food, but much of the world as well. It also supplies the raw materials to a large processed food industry, an industry that I would argue wouldn't exist to the extent it does, without the cheap raw materials supplied by US agriculture. I don't think the scale of processed food is possible in Europe, for example, simply because it is cost prohibitive. (I'm just speculating here) But to my original point, I think the suggestion that there is a gap, much less a big gap, between the top dining cities, or the top restaurants in the US and those outside the US is absurd. I would also venture that this holds true regardless of whether you're talking about white tablecloth, neighborhood bistro, or streetfood.

After reading through some of iamatt's follow up posts in this thread, I think he and I don't share the same tastes in food. I lived in the bay area for ten years and I don't think we like the same restaurants. I don't like offal, but I've enjoyed the three or four meals I've had at Incanto. I do agree that the Baccalone salumi business is, to put it kindly, not impressive. I personally think they launched before they were really ready and their product seemed more like a clumsy attempt at home made salumi. I do like their mortadella though.

i've heard great things about babita, too. actually, for bdc, being an oc boy, i had dinner last night at a family favorite in long beach, just north of marina pacifica, that kind of fits the bill ... a place called enrique's. it's about halfway between street food and fine dining. they make a pork shank in green sauce that is amazing. last night i had the sabana, which is a quickly grilled skirt steak topped with a watercress salad. very, very nice.

If you believe Conde Nast Traveler, then Vancouver (including its suburb Richmond) has the best chinese food in the world link.