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Why Lesser has some hegemony on Savile row ? - Page 8

post #106 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post
Right, so some jerk impugns the reputation of a respected merchant, said merchant is defended, and the jerk or one of his buddies signs up a sock puppet to say the defender is a drunk?

What forum is this again?

No worry, Sir. You did what was the right thing to do.
post #107 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post
Right, so some jerk impugns the reputation of a respected merchant, said merchant is defended, and the jerk or one of his buddies signs up a sock puppet to say the defender is a drunk? What forum is this again?
Manton, there's treatment available for paranoia you know.
post #108 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by George View Post
Manton, there's treatment available for paranoia you know.

The only part of my statement that is speculative is the link between you and the sock puppet. However, even if there is absolutley no direct link, the person is at least a fellow traveller with you and your crowd. That is indisputable.
post #109 of 280
After reading Manton's raving review, does anyone know where you can look at Lesser cloth online?
post #110 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonneker View Post
After reading Manton's raving review, does anyone know where you can look at Lesser cloth online?

No, their website is terrible. They are such a backward company that there is really no hope they will ever have a decent online presense. The only hope is that someone will do what AndrewRogers did for Harrison, but don't count on it because Lesser is pretty strict about selling only to tailors.
post #111 of 280
so, does anyone miss hws yet?
post #112 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post
The only part of my statement that is speculative is the link between you and the sock puppet. However, even if there is absolutley no direct link, the person is at least a fellow traveller with you and your crowd. That is indisputable.
I'll tilt once more Manton, what draws the sock-puppets, trolls, whatever to you, is your behaviour. The ill concealed anger, the accusatory, hectoring tone in your posts as demonstrated in this thread. Have you ever stopped to think why so many people dislike you internet persona? You should, you'll find it cathartic.
post #113 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by George View Post
I'll tilt once more

Manton, what draws the sock-puppets, trolls, whatever to you, is your behaviour. The ill concealed anger, the accusatory, hectoring tone in your posts as demonstrated in this thread.

Have you ever stopped to think why so many people dislike you internet persona? You should, you'll find it cathartic.

Let's review what happened again, since you are so interested.

An innocent question was asked about a fact, namely that SR tailors love Lesser. I and others tried to give an answer. You suggested that it was an underhanded deal on the part of corrupt parties. You later tried to claim that was just a joke, but leave that aside. I replied, I thought very mildly, that there were good reasons to believe your suspicion was untrue. You have since alternatively doubled down and contradictorily tried to deny that you meant anything of the kind. Then some sock puppet appeared out of th blue to support you and call me a drunk. A particular hallmark, I note, of the arch-troll Horace but a common enough tactic on the FNB site across the membership.

As to the people who obsess over me at the FNB site, they are so obviously nearly all lunatics and psychotics that one can't draw any conclusions from that, at least not about me. Except that I must be a figure of some great importance in their minds as they have been talking about me non-stop going on five years now.

I get along with nearly everyone on this site quite well. I don't really get along with the assholes and the trolls and the FNB water-carriers but I can live with that.
post #114 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post
[...]
Then some sock puppet appeared out of th blue to support you and call me a drunk.
[...]

I'll go ahead and speculate, to protect the innocent, that Manton is having a good laugh playing it straight. Well done, Sir, indeed.

I shudder at the alternative (but would like to point to the obvious spambot origin of at least one message in this thread, whether it is the offending one or not)
post #115 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post
Let's review what happened again, since you are so interested. An innocent question was asked about a fact, namely that SR tailors love Lesser. I and others tried to give an answer. You suggested that it was an underhanded deal on the part of corrupt parties. You later tried to claim that was just a joke, but leave that aside. I replied, I thought very mildly, that there were good reasons to believe your suspicion was untrue. You have since alternatively doubled down and contradictorily tried to deny that you meant anything of the kind. Then some sock puppet appeared out of th blue to support you and call me a drunk. A particular hallmark, I note, of the arch-troll Horace but a common enough tactic on the FNB site across the membership. As to the people who obsess over me at the FNB site, they are so obviously nearly all lunatics and psychotics that one can't draw any conclusions from that, at least not about me. Except that I must be a figure of some great importance in their minds as they have been talking about me non-stop going on five years now. I get along with nearly everyone on this site quite well. I don't really get along with the assholes and the trolls and the FNB water-carriers but I can live with that.
OK, so it's fine to accuse me of attempting to damaging the reputation of a cloth merchant but it's fine for you to say that some of the goods that H&S and Harrison's carry are crap.? Is that not damaging their reputations? Re-read RJman's post where he links to David Reeves posts, this is a guy who works in the business, worked in Savile Row, is he lying? The thing is, if I'd have said the above about nearly any other merchant you wouldn't have give a crap but because it's Lessers and one of your sacred cows, you feel the need to leap to it's defence. An attack on what Manton likes is an attack on Manton. Now I get it.
post #116 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwoood View Post
I'll go ahead and speculate, to protect the innocent, that Manton is having a good laugh playing it straight. Well done, Sir, indeed. I shudder at the alternative (but would like to point to the obvious spambot origin of at least one message in this thread, whether it is the offending one or not)
Don't ruin it, Manton thinks every post is about him.
post #117 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by George View Post
OK, so it's fine to accuse me of attempting to damaging the reputation of a cloth merchant but it's fine for you to say that some of the goods that H&S and Harrison's carry are crap.? Is that not damaging their reputations?

The difference is obvious, but I will state the obvious nonetheless. I have been asked and given my judgement of the quality of certain products. That's an honest assessment that says nothing about those companies' business practices or honesty. I have no reason to doubt that any of them are anything other than wholly reputable. They just make some stuff that I think is not great. (BTW, I don't think I've ever said anything negative about Harrison products. I think all of them are very good; though some are too expensive for what you get and some are exceeded in quality by similar goods from other merchants; categories not exclusive.)

What you did was say, or imply, that Lesser is dishonest. Entirely different.
post #118 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post
The difference is obvious, but I will state the obvious nonetheless. I have been asked and given my judgement of the quality of certain products. That's an honest assessment that says nothing about those companies' business practices or honesty. I have no reason to doubt that any of them are anything other than wholly reputable. They just make some stuff that I think is not great. (BTW, I don't think I've ever said anything negative about Harrison products. I think all of them are very good; though some are too expensive for what you get and some are exceeded in quality by similar goods from other merchants; categories not exclusive.) What you did was say, or imply, that Lesser is dishonest. Entirely different.
You said that Harrisons Premier Cru was crap, when Mafoo and iammatt said they had had suits made from them you engaged reverse gear and said that maybe you'd got a bad piece. I'll let you off there though with 20,000+ posts you can't be expected to remember all of them. You still haven't answered the David Reeves part of my post. So I'll ask it again is he lying does he have an axe to grind as well.
post #119 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by George View Post
You said that Harrisons Premier Cru was crap, when Mafoo and iammatt said they had had suits made from them you engaged reverse gear and said that maybe you'd got a bad piece. I'll let you off there though with 20,000+ posts you can't be expected to remember all of them.

You still haven't answered the David Reeves part of my post. So I'll ask it again is he lying does he have an axe to grind as well.

Oh, that's right I do think Premier Cru is crap. I have one suit from it and I think it is bad cloth. What you call backpeddaling I call intellectual honesty, or at least the willingness to heed the proferred experience of others. I don't deny that they think it is good and I don't insist that they adopt my opinion. Such a response can be so rare on the forum that I can see how it confused you. I like pretty much all of the the other Harrison books, except Moonbeam, which I think is ugly but I don't have any reason to suspect the quality. I have suits from Harrison and am getting an overcoat from them.

I don't really have anything to add to the Reeves debate except to say that I don't agree with him. He is certainly wrong that Lesser is low priced; I know for a fact that both wholesale and retail (though it is almost never sold retail) prices are high. Since he is wrong about that it makes me wonder how much he really knows about the subject.
post #120 of 280
I'm not sure how much credibility a person should get just for being "in the business." Sure, working in a particular industry ought to make you privy to inside information and special knowledge, but it's the information and knowledge that are worth anything. Many of Reeve's comments about Lesser cloth are pejoratively bereft of substance. In what RJman quoted, Reeve's only substantial criticism was that, in his experience, Lesser cloth shines up before cloth from places like Loro Piana. Of course, the problem with crediting that criticism is that too many of us have had experience with Loro Piana cloth. Keep in mind, he also sells the stuff he is praising: not dispositive evidence of bias, but yet another good reason not to award persuasive points to the fact alone that he is "in the business." However, that's not to single out Reeves. You should apply the same level of skepticism to anyone selling you stuff.
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