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Countdown to Breaking Bad!!! - Page 58

post #856 of 2875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo_Version 7 View Post

You have to admit, why makes some valid points. I mean, Walter started out this whole thing as a means to ensure his family's financial stability after his death. Even the most die-hard fans have to admit that the way things have escalated certainly paint a rather unrealistic picture.

The way things have escalated is the whole point of the show. The goal from day one was to take a good man and slowly over the years turn him into a bad one. Why do you think they had to get rid of Gus? Walt now becomes what he was.
post #857 of 2875
247
post #858 of 2875
To be fair, the show does get more interesting whenever Walter makes questionable judgments but things have become too contrived in such a short amount of time. For instance, Walter letting Jane die was presented both in an interesting and realistic manner. Fast forward to last season and we get that Lily of the Valley non-sense that was overtly convoluted and ended things in a neat, little package. Fortunately, we have a clean slate with which to start a more grounded narrative free of frantic car crashes and needless explosions.
post #859 of 2875
I like how he's holding the box cutter there. nice.
post #860 of 2875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo_Version 7 View Post

To be fair, the show does get more interesting whenever Walter makes questionable judgments but things have become too contrived in such a short amount of time. For instance, Walter letting Jane die was presented both in an interesting and realistic manner. Fast forward to last season and we get that Lily of the Valley non-sense that was overtly convoluted and ended things in a neat, little package. Fortunately, we have a clean slate with which to start a more grounded narrative free of frantic car crashes and needless explosions.

The show has been on TV for four years. Even if the "show time" doesn't match our real time, It's not like these changes to his character happened overnight. One of the show's strengths has been how well they have handled his slow character arc towards the creator's end goal.
post #861 of 2875
The half Gus thing was pretty silly but that's been one of the few times that show has annoyed me. I don't read into it as much as people do but I still find it smart, funny and dramatic.
post #862 of 2875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joffrey View Post

The half Gus thing was pretty silly but that's been one of the few times that show has annoyed me. I don't read into it as much as people do but I still find it smart, funny and dramatic.

Really, I thought it was fantastic. I have a very low threshold for suspension of disbelief and that passed no problem.
post #863 of 2875
Quote:
Originally Posted by idfnl View Post

Really, I thought it was fantastic. I have a very low threshold for suspension of disbelief and that passed no problem.

I thought it worked in the context of the show and the moment. It was a creative scene.
post #864 of 2875
Thread Starter 
It's just silly to say "this isn't good because there aren't real people like that" for two reasons:

First, we want to see compelling characters and plots, not everyday ones. Nobody would expect Tarrantino, Anderson, or Shakespear characters to pop up in real life; why demand it from Gilligan?

Second, he's NOT so unrealistic as there ARE people more or less like this. Most people don't start out to be greedy criminals, but money changes people. That's exactly what Gilligan is showing us: Walter makes horrible decisions out of both averice and self-preservation, and this has happened countless times in real life. Crime can become a nasty and very real slippery slope. Also, keep in mind that Walt hates what he's become: witness his violent reaction when he finds out he's in remission.

A few other observations:

The plane crash was what it was: a consequence of a string of bad decisions (continued and deepened drug use, Jesse's allowing himself to be manipulated against Walter, Walter's allowing her to choke to death, etc). Its story end there. I don't understand why that's unclear.

The assassin brothers weren't good at their job because they were stealthy and cleaver, but because they were careless sociopaths. (Again, these people certainly exist.) In fact, they came off as being rather stupid, and it was pretty clear rather quickly that their lack of planning and foresight would ultimately cost them their lives; that just happened to take place on this job, but it could have been any job. Their tenacity was probably the only thing that kept them alive even as long as they were. To be sure, they were a bit dramatic, but not so much that the characters weren't effective.

Mike is a fixer. Don't overthink him. He's paid to do dirty (and often boring) work. He's not really meant to be compelling; he's exactly as why described him, except it isn't a bad thing. Just as real fixers are hired to make things happen, Mike exists to be one vehicle of accomplishment on the show. The character doesn't get in the way and provides some excellent comedy to boot. I wouldn't change a thing about him.

We aren't meant to see beyond the next episode, and that's the point. From the beginning, Gilligan has expressly stated in general terms what was going to happen: a good person was going to become a bad person. Even his reasons for doing what he does evolve, from being for his family to greed. The wonderful thing about the show is watching how[i/] he evolves. It's very much character-driven, despite the great and twisting plot.
Edited by Teacher - 7/9/12 at 11:48am
post #865 of 2875
233
post #866 of 2875
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteslashasian View Post

Right. Because TV shows and movies often portray the most realistic of scenarios and human logic.

The good ones at least adhere to the basic principles.
post #867 of 2875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher View Post

It's just silly to say "this isn't good because there aren't real people like that" for two reasons:
First, we want to see compelling characters and plots, not everydat ones. Nobody would expect Tarrantino, Anderson, or Shakespear characters to pop up in real life; why demand it from Gilligan?

I expect Shakespeare characters in real life, and I think that's one of Shakespeare's strengths and why so many productions of his have been done with entirely different settings from the original and worked well. His plays work regardless of time and setting because there's so much truth to them. If you put Tarantino and Anderson characters alongside Shakespeare's you're either joking or retarded.
Quote:
Second, he's NOT so unrealistic as there ARE people more or less like this. Most people don't start out to be greedy criminals, but money changes people. That's exactly what Gilligan is showing us: Walter makes horrible decisions out of both averice and self-preservation, and this has happened countless times in real life. Crime can become a nasty and very real slippery slope. Also, keep in mind that hates what he's become: witness his violent reaction when he finds out he's in remission.

Walter doesn't care about money for himself. If you seriously believe that you're just deluding yourself.
Quote:
A few other observations:
The plane crash was what it was: a consequence of a string of bad decisions (continued and deepened drug use, Jesse's allowing himself to be manipulated against Walter, Walter's allowing her to choke to death, etc).

Yeah, it's sure nice to explain away bad writing with tautologies.
Quote:
The assassin brothers weren't good at their job because they were stealthy and cleaver, but because they were careless sociopaths.

They were idiots. Durr...assassins get sent by a boss, then talk to a rival boss and then decide to change targets? Are you kidding me?
Quote:
Mike is a fixer. Don't overthink him. He's paid to do dirty (and often boring) work. He's not really meant to be compelling; he's exactly as why described him, except it isn't a bad thing. Just as real fixers are hired to make things happen, Mike exists to be one vehicle of accomplishment on the show. The character doesn't get in the way and provides some excellent comedy to boot. I wouldn't change a thing about him.

The only thing Mike fixes is the bad writing and lack of foresight.
Quote:
We aren't meant to see beyond the next episode, and that's the point. From the beginning, Gilligan has expressly stated in general terms what was going to happen: a good person was going to become a bad person. Even his reasons for doing what he does evolve, from being for his family to greed. The wonderful thing about the show is watching how[/] he evolves. It's very much character-driven, despite the great and twisting plot.

Oh please. How can you say we're not meant to see beyond the next episode when they foreshadow ten or so episodes ahead at times like the plane crash and its build-up? And your explanation is just as lazy as the writing in the show...durrr...we're not meant to see beyond the next episode? Since when? How do you know what we're meant to see, and furthermore who gives a shit about what we're meant to see when the entire problem is not about what the writers intend but how the writing is executed? Might as well say 'the writers meant to write a good show' as a way to explain away all the show's faults.

And the entire basis of the show -- Walter 'breaking bad' -- was accomplished in the first season or two. It was boring then, and at this point they're just milking it for all it's worth and I'm not dumb or bored enough to bother watching it.

All the crap about Walter as a deep character is just that -- crap. It's not really worthwhile to discuss character depth, especially because deep characters alone don't make good entertainment anyway no matter how much dopes like to discuss them. Some of the best literature ever written had completely lifeless and boring characters yet for some reason I can't discuss a movie, TV show, or book without some half-wit bringing up character depth. It's the reason Breaking Bad's writing is bad yet people think there's something to it. It's not good. It's the same tired crap drama focused on characters and the unbelievable events that occur in their lives against a backdrop that provides the all-essential ready-made affect. It's a crap recipe that produces crap like The Shawshank Redemption and its sci-fi more-magical-black-man spin-off The Green Mile, garbage like The Boy in the Striped Pajamas, and nonsense like The Deer Hunter -- except with Breaking Bad instead of prisons, the Holocaust, and the Vietnam War we have drugs.

(The above examples are off the top of my head and aren't by any means exhaustive since Hollywood is plagued by the disease).
Edited by why - 7/9/12 at 1:03pm
post #868 of 2875
Fans of the show should find this interesting... A History of the pink teddy near recurring motif.

http://www.uproxx.com/tv/2012/07/television-dramas-coolest-recurring-motif-breaking-bads-pink-teddy-bear/#ixzz209fy8mAQ
post #869 of 2875
Thread Starter 
Seriously, why, you make me chuckle. It's like you care too much what others think. You're not Clint Eastwood's character from Gran Torino; you're far lonlier and angrier, with more anxiety.

This discussion is going nowhere, so I'll be very brief and leave it at that, just to clarify myself in case you had any more confused thoughts:

Walter started doing this for his family, but now he's in it for himself. He could have stopped a long time ago but didn't.

You basically agree with me regarding the hit men. They were stupid. And that's why they were so easy to redirect and then kill. DURRR!

My observation regarding the plane crash isn't a tautology. I'm not so sure you know what a tautology is, and you're far too crabby for me to explain it.

You don't actually refute my observation regarding Mike, you just express more crabbiness.

In all honesty, you seem like a very angry and perhaps even hateful person. Disagreement is fine, but what's the need to insult people? You know, I take back what I said about you making me chuckle. Now that I think it over, I honestly feel sorry for you. I really do.
post #870 of 2875
Thread Starter 
SIX!








(almost forgot!)
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