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what is your religion? - Page 7

post #91 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill
Um, certainly the US. But I was referring to the world.



Why do you ask? Do you think there is any country in the world that is 50% Athiest?

It's no secret that this country's religious centers are located in the rural and/or southern southern states. On a smaller scale, even urban districts in Texas voted for Kerry.

If you look at only nothern states and cities, the percentages change dramatically.
post #92 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by dah328
That is most certainly true. In exactly the same way, atheism also requires faith such that even in the face of some amazing event that served to prove beyond any sort of doubt the existence of a deity, the majority would continue to be unconvinced.

Dah-

I am not sure I follow. As a practicing apatheist and skeptic, I certainly appreciate that questions such as the formation of the Universe and the meaning of life are great imponderables.

My problem with all organized religions and deistic belief systems is that, having examined each faith's theory of a supernatural omnipotent being(s) who a) formed the universe, b) erected a rather complex reward and punishment system, and c) seems to prefer being worshipped, I remain unpersuaded. I am not unpersuadable, simply unpersuaded. I continue to believe that the burden of proof is on the proponent of the belief system and, to date, no one has sustained his/her burden yet.
post #93 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota rube
This, my dear friend, not only explains a lot, but is a prescription for years and years of very expensive — and unfortunately not helpful — psychotherapy.

I can't decide whether to pray a novena, build an orphanage or run for the town council as a Republican.
post #94 of 176
i voted christian, but i would never go to a church. i feel jesus had alot of good teachings, but paul fucked it all up when he came in with his roman mind.
post #95 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrysalid
^i think i saw david copperfield do that in vegas.

post #96 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by marc237
I am not sure I follow. As a practicing apatheist and skeptic, I certainly appreciate that questions such as the formation of the Universe and the meaning of life are great imponderables.

My problem with all organized religions and deistic belief systems is that, having examined each faith's theory of a supernatural omnipotent being(s) who a) formed the universe, b) erected a rather complex reward and punishment system, and c) seems to prefer being worshipped, I remain unpersuaded. I am not unpersuadable, simply unpersuaded. I continue to believe that the burden of proof is on the proponent of the belief system and, to date, no one has sustained his/her burden yet.

Thank you! I was going to dogpile on dah328, but you pretty much said what I was going to. I'd add that, while there are undoubtedly many atheists in the world who would cling to their beliefs no matter what happened (as would, I feel compelled to point out, many theists of various stripes), a great number of us are atheists simply because, having reviewed the evidence and examined our logic, we simply do not believe that there is any good reason to believe in a deity.

There are plenty of ways in which I sort of miss my belief in God, and the occasional comfort and structure it provided, but my atheism (under Kent Wang's definition, which is simply lacking a positive belief in God--atheism lite, I guess) just results from my desire to be honest with myself. If I discovered or was shown some clear reason to believe in God, I would probably accept it joyfully.
post #97 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saucemaster
Thank you! I was going to dogpile on dah328, but you pretty much said what I was going to. I'd add that, while there are undoubtedly many atheists in the world who would cling to their beliefs no matter what happened (as would, I feel compelled to point out, many theists of various stripes), a great number of us are atheists simply because, having reviewed the evidence and examined our logic, we simply do not believe that there is any good reason to believe in a deity.

There are plenty of ways in which I sort of miss my belief in God, and the occasional comfort and structure it provided, but my atheism (under Kent Wang's definition, which is simply lacking a positive belief in God--atheism lite, I guess) just results from my desire to be honest with myself. If I discovered or was shown some clear reason to believe in God, I would probably accept it joyfully.

This makes sense to me. What I don't understand are people of all stripes (Christian, Muslim, Atheist, whatever) who are so hostile to other people's choice of belief systems. As far as I'm concerned, as long as you're not trying to harm someone else, you can believe in whatever the hell you want -- Christ, Mommamed, Xenu, The Almighty Dollar, whatever. If it works for you and helps you make sense of the world, and helps you answer some of the otherwise unanswerable questions, cool. No skin off my nose.
post #98 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by marc237
I am not sure I follow. As a practicing apatheist and skeptic, I certainly appreciate that questions such as the formation of the Universe and the meaning of life are great imponderables.

My problem with all organized religions and deistic belief systems is that, having examined each faith's theory of a supernatural omnipotent being(s) who a) formed the universe, b) erected a rather complex reward and punishment system, and c) seems to prefer being worshipped, I remain unpersuaded. I am not unpersuadable, simply unpersuaded. I continue to believe that the burden of proof is on the proponent of the belief system and, to date, no one has sustained his/her burden yet.
This does not negate what I posted. That you are unpersuaded as to the existence of a particular deity is no proof that one does not exist. That you choose to live your life as if none exist is therefore an act of faith -- a rather significant act of faith as the consequences in most religions for such actions are rather severe. I intend only to point out that atheism is no less a dogmatic and faith-based belief system than any other deistic belief system.
post #99 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Margaret
This makes sense to me. What I don't understand are people of all stripes (Christian, Muslim, Atheist, whatever) who are so hostile to other people's choice of belief systems. As far as I'm concerned, as long as you're not trying to harm someone else, you can believe in whatever the hell you want -- Christ, Mommamed, Xenu, The Almighty Dollar, whatever. If it works for you and helps you make sense of the world, and helps you answer some of the otherwise unanswerable questions, cool. No skin off my nose.

I agree in theory, but in practice, Scientology drives me batshit insane. Seeing someone convert to Scientology is kind of like seeing someone get intellectually mugged. But yeah, I try to live the principle anyway.
post #100 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by dah328
This does not negate what I posted. That you are unpersuaded as to the existence of a particular deity is no proof that one does not exist. That you choose to live your life as if none exist is therefore an act of faith -- a rather significant act of faith as the consequences in most religions for such actions are rather severe. I intend only to point out that atheism is no less a dogmatic and faith-based belief system than any other deistic belief system.

Excuse me? Do you feel you are acting on "faith" when you decide not to believe that Zeus and the rest of the Greek pantheon are watching you from Mt. Olympus? No. For that matter, do you think that your (presumed) non-belief in dragons is a significant act of faith? I mean, if you're wrong, the consequences could be similarly severe. Trogdor, for example, could burninate the countryside and/or the peasants.

It takes no faith to *not* believe in something that isn't materially affecting you. Or, if you prefer, it takes a hell of a lot LESS faith to not believe in the things hoped for and unseen than it does to believe in them. Under your assertion above, any belief of any sort, anywhere, requires "faith". I submit that, at the very least, this makes the term almost completely and utterly useless.
post #101 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Margaret
This makes sense to me. What I don't understand are people of all stripes (Christian, Muslim, Atheist, whatever) who are so hostile to other people's choice of belief systems. As far as I'm concerned, as long as you're not trying to harm someone else, you can believe in whatever the hell you want -- Christ, Mommamed, Xenu, The Almighty Dollar, whatever. If it works for you and helps you make sense of the world, and helps you answer some of the otherwise unanswerable questions, cool. No skin off my nose.
exactly what I think. If having Christ/Allah/Buddah/Tom Cruise/Vishnu or whoever else in your life makes you believe that you are a better man than you would be without them, then I am all for it.
post #102 of 176
The dogmatic faith of atheists usually takes the form of a worshipping of reason, which is no different a belief system than any other propagated throughout history.

Quote:
My problem with all organized religions and deistic belief systems is that, having examined each faith's theory of a supernatural omnipotent being(s) who a) formed the universe, b) erected a rather complex reward and punishment system, and c) seems to prefer being worshipped

None of these have anything to do with a/theism per se, but only the specifics of individual religious structures.
post #103 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger02
The dogmatic faith of atheists usually takes the form of a worshipping of reason, which is no different a belief system than any other propagated throughout history.

In what sense are you intending the word "reason" here? Because if you're just talking about logic, then it's not a "belief system" per se. It doesn't really matter what you do, something cannot be both A and Not A at the same time. It's just how things are.
post #104 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saucemaster
In what sense are you intending the word "reason" here? Because if you're just talking about logic, then it's not a "belief system" per se. It doesn't really matter what you do, something cannot be both A and Not A at the same time. It's just how things are.
Exactly.
post #105 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger02
Exactly.

But not, though. I mean, existence is literally unthinkable without the basic tenets of logic, and it's literally *impossible* to imagine something being red and not red at the same time, for example. It's on a very different plane than something like believing in the existence of a deity. One is a fundamental precondition for the act of belief or thought in any form, the other is the *content* of belief/thought. It's a crucial distinction.
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