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what is your religion? - Page 11

post #151 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by skalogre
See my note previously re: belief as pertains to atheism and non-belief. I would go futher to say that what you define as such is still too constrictive. The definition of atheism as a religion OR as non-belief in God is a construct used usually BY believers to link atheism to their beliefs. Atheism is NOT defined by what it is not, even though many - believers in Judeochristianislamic creeds - would not see that. Big reason why I use the humanism label rather than agnostic or atheist. Specific belief system (not religion) that does not make the theists link me to their beliefs necessarily
Perhaps... BUT, Religion is still more than just a belief system. It also must include (to be a religion and not just a belief system) worship (or some sort of practice if you prefer) and a code of conduct (moral prescription). As I said, it is not necessary to be religious, so I don't understand why people feel the need to label their particular belief system as a religion when it is not one. BTW: atheism is NAMED not only defined by what it is not.
post #152 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jen
Perhaps... BUT, Religion is still more than just a belief system. It also must include (to be a religion and not just a belief system) worship (or some sort of practice if you prefer) and a code of conduct (moral prescription). As I said, it is not necessary to be religious, so I don't understand why people feel the need to label their particular belief system as a religion when it is not one.
I see your point but that is more a semantic issue. The poll would have been better served to have a I don't have a religion; I am agnostic/atheist/humanist et.c. or something to that effect. Stelios P.s. re: etymological definition of atheism. I know. Greek word. It is actually mildly insulting in greek (sort of a jab word). Another reason I don't like it. p.s. we need a Pastafarian option too
post #153 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saucemaster
LOL, thanks, man. You gotta be quick, I'm just sitting here with very little to do at work this week, and a philosophy degree going to waste.... I mean, I basically got a degree in bullshit.
This society apparently has little use for humanities aside from dubious charities funding arts for poor children talented in ballet or opera.
post #154 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saucemaster
Whether "reality" is or can be accurately reflected by our beliefs is a question I don't presume to have an answer to.
My short answer is no, we don't yet have the tools to give a firm grasp on "reality". "Reality" from my line of reasoning is static while logic is always evolving, giving the illusion of a dynamic reality.

20,000 yrs of evolution and we still cant get rid of all the hair off our backs. In many ways, ze world, she is still flat.
post #155 of 176
Tom has too many statements posted for me to quote except to say I agree with him. (Sorry, Tom)

And pose this question- what if the answer isn't in the mind, and in fact the mind is the ultimate trickster?
post #156 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve B.
Tom has too many statements posted for me to quote except to say I agree with him. (Sorry, Tom)

And pose this question- what if the answer isn't in the mind, and in fact the mind is the ultimate trickster?

ie Descartes' malevolent daemon? All bets are off. Especially for religion come to think of it.
post #157 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve B.
what if the answer isn't in the mind, and in fact the mind is the ultimate trickster?
But as soon as you formulate a question, you're playing by the mind's rules, like it or not, clearly or through a glass darkly, tricked or otherwise....
post #158 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve B.
Tom has too many statements posted for me to quote except to say I agree with him. (Sorry, Tom)

And pose this question- what if the answer isn't in the mind, and in fact the mind is the ultimate trickster?
It's not, the Coyote is. Just ask herr Roadrunner.
post #159 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jen
I dispute that "atheism" is a religion.
Religions all have 3 pillars
Creed - What you believe
Cult - How you worship
Code - Rules for living


One problem with having Code be part of religion is that it is sometimes to narrow a view due to many factors such as when it was created. For example, there is no commandment that tells good Christians to not pollute thy planet. Or one to tell AIDS ridden countries that condoms are OK. Being a moral person can be defined in many ways, of course, but I think I'll decide that for myself and not limit myself to a set of rules that were made thousands of years ago.
post #160 of 176
Quote:
But as soon as you formulate a question, you're playing by the mind's rules, like it or not, clearly or through a glass darkly, tricked or otherwise....

Or to use it as a tool to get somewhere else...
post #161 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by briancl
One problem with having Code be part of religion is that it is sometimes to narrow a view due to many factors such as when it was created. For example, there is no commandment that tells good Christians to not pollute thy planet. Or one to tell AIDS ridden countries that condoms are OK. Being a moral person can be defined in many ways, of course, but I think I'll decide that for myself and not limit myself to a set of rules that were made thousands of years ago.

Like it or not, orthopraxy (an highly codified set of social and ritualistic pratices-what Jen called "cult" and "code") is one of the two major part of a religion, along with orthodoxy (what jen called creed, basically faith), of course the exact dosage of both vary from religion to religion, making modern christians, a relatively more orthodoxical bunch when compared with muslims or jews. I would argue that if you reject orthopraxy, like a lot of believers do, you effectively remove yourself from the ranks of "christians", although you might be counted as someone who believes in a higher power.
post #162 of 176
as a side affect of the modern world, many of us don't have a solid religion, as defined by Jen. I have to assosiate it with our society having less control over us and less ability to socialize us completly - in much of the world, and iin most of human history, you would have access to a few hundred people, and the idea that they could vocalize. today in the connected world, you meet thousands (or tens of thousands) of people, you have access to virtually unlimited ammounts of media, you meet, talk and communicate with people who come from very different backgrounds from you, so you assimilate a lot of data.

creed - I don't believe in anything... or to be more accurate, I neither believe in god nor believe strongly that god doesn't exist. I believe that I will never have enough information about this to make a decision, and so I do not think about it.

Cult - basically, I worship according to reform jewish practices. I didn't go into a synagogue for 20 years or so, but started going when my son was old enough to go, for his sake. I feel very strongly that if you remove this element of culture from a child's upbringing then they go out looking for something later on in life, and I want to avoid that. After I starte going, I found that I enjoy the services, they remind me a lot of going as a kid.

Code - hard to say, I would say that I lived the largest part of my adult life according to some basterdized home made code that was a hybrid of ayn rand and bushido. with maturity, I would say that my code is very similar to what you might expect from the grandson of both a presbeterian minister whose family came over on the mayflower and a Russian jewish born ethiest - sort of old school wasp meets new york jew.
post #163 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger02
Logic is a very tidy, internally consistent way to describe our understanding of the world. That doesn't make it infallible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger02
Why do you have such faith that reason is infallible?

I think the question is not whether logic and reason are infallible or perfect; the real question is what available alternatives there are to being logical and rational. Otherwise I think this gets into the fallacy of unobtainable perfection. Logic and rationality work far better for human beings than anything else, even though logic and rationality are not perfect. Even devoutly religious people utilize logic and reason to survive in the world.
post #164 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by briancl
It's no secret that this country's religious centers are located in the rural and/or southern southern states. On a smaller scale, even urban districts in Texas voted for Kerry.

If you look at only nothern states and cities, the percentages change dramatically.
So according to this logic, there are no Southern or rural participants to menswear fora? I don't disagree with your assertion. I just don't know how it explains the disparity between the (now) 35% Athiest here vs. the 2% on the pie chart.
post #165 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill
So according to this logic, there are no Southern or rural participants to menswear fora? I don't disagree with your assertion. I just don't know how it explains the disparity between the (now) 35% Athiest here vs. the 2% on the pie chart.
Clearly atheists are well-dressed.* *: Or at least like to talk about dressing well on the internet, which might be an entirely different thing.... More seriously, it's probably the result of multiple factors at work all at once. While I see what you were saying above, there probably are a relatively greater percentage of urban posters on this forum than there are northern and/or coastal city-dwellers in the population at large. Just look at how many members all hail from NYC! There's also probably a surfeit of higher education and upper income brackets on the forum, which IIRC tracks a little bit with a move away from religion. I don't remember the numbers, though, and I could be wrong about this. But most importantly, I think the biggest selection effect is that only people who bother responding to the poll in the first place are the people who are devoted enough to their position to start discussing it in a menswear forum on the internet... so you're probably pulling much more from the extremes. Plus, it's the internet. There's always that.
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