or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › General › General Chat › University Experience
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

University Experience - Page 4

post #46 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violinist
Sorry, gotta agree with vincent. Most kids at university come from well to do (relatively speaking), conservative families and they're about 5 years behind maturity wise and a lot of the time their actions are just embarrasing (although they're uniformly extremely well mannered, often well intentioned kids).

On what are you basing this?

I went to school at three large (public) research institutions, have taught at two of the same and have also taught at two small (private) liberal arts colleges. Your description applies to one of those schools. And even then only partially.

Every school has a mix of income level, politics, and maturity. Some schools are more conservative or more liberal, but it depends on the school. The majority of my students have been mature. The ones who aren't tend to have such bad manners they overwhelm the good ones. And it has nothing to do with politics or money. And speaking of which, there is a wide spread of family income levels.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Violinist
A lot of time I think going to a state school would have been really fun.

I'm not sure where you get this idea. Public or private, the student dynamic is the same. You find your group and that's who you hang with.

bob
post #47 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Margaret
Are the intelligent, secure, well-rounded, sober kids taking a pass on college these days, or are they opting for lower-profile 'second-tier' schools, or what?

They don't exist Seriously though, there were very few non-alcohol based student social opportunites at my school. With NYC and Philly each an hour away by train, there were other options.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Violinist
It's just that if you come from a place where the drinking age is kind of only a suggestion and people DON'T lose their virginity only right before marriage, then it can be a bit hard to deal with.

I'm going to ignore the incorrect statement you made before this one. If I'm reading this right, you're saying that if the drinking age were strictly enforced at 21, and no one were having sex, college would be a better place? Please tell me if I'm 180 off in understanding, because that's a baffling assertion.

Tom
post #48 of 68
My anecdote..

I loved college. I rushed through it.. seven 16-week semesters and two 8-week semesters from Sep 99-Dec 02. I worked 40 hours a week at a career-level job from week 2 of freshman year until 2 weeks after graduation, but ultimately, I had a great time. I had no free time, I missed lots of silly things, but I made time for stuff that was important to me. I did it up on the weekends, got a little crazy, but then got back to business M-F. I did it mostly on my own dime, too, but that isn't necessarily a huge factor. Although it did motivate me to work more hours and finish school early.

I still keep in touch with a few friends, even the ones that are halfway across the country, and I never regret anything I did, even some bad choices here or there.

I went to a Big Ten school here in the Midwest after having grown up in a tiny coastal town in Connecticut.. and whatever, I'll make it back to a coast eventually, but so far, so good. I attribute my success to a lot of things.. very little to schoolwork or classwork (I wasn't the best student, but I learned), but a lot to my experience overall during those 3 years and 3 months.
post #49 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger02
They don't exist Seriously though, there were very few non-alcohol based student social opportunites at my school. With NYC and Philly each an hour away by train, there were other options.



I'm going to ignore the incorrect statement you made before this one. If I'm reading this right, you're saying that if the drinking age were strictly enforced at 21, and no one were having sex, college would be a better place? Please tell me if I'm 180 off in understanding, because that's a baffling assertion.

Tom

wow. Reading comprehension lessons are in order.

I'm saying the exact opposite. Prohibition makes for boring, immature people. I'm saying that I've seldom met anyone who adapts well after having been raised in a monastery (figuratively speaking), once they come here, they try to act out animal house and it ends up being pathetic... passing out int he hallway at like 10:30pm, puking everywhere after like 2 beers.. come on.
post #50 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violinist
wow. Reading comprehension lessons are in order.

I'm saying the exact opposite. Prohibition makes for boring, immature people. I'm saying that I've seldom met anyone who adapts well after having been raised in a monastery (figuratively speaking), once they come here, they try to act out animal house and it ends up being pathetic... passing out int he hallway at like 10:30pm, puking everywhere after like 2 beers.. come on.

You've just articulated how montrealers see americans and out of the province canadians who come study at our universities. I kinda understand where you come from but think it's a lot less clear cut than that in reality, you've got different people at different levels of maturity everywhere. Quebec is particular in that if you haven't had your sex, drugs and rock'n'roll phase in high school (which is shorter than in the US/Can) you will have your epiphany in Cegep which means you're mostly past that or really experienced at it when you arrive at university.
post #51 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma
You've just articulated how montrealers see americans and out of the province canadians who come study at our universities. I kinda understand where you come from but think it's a lot less clear cut than that in reality, you've got different people at different levels of maturity everywhere. Quebec is particular in that if you haven't had your sex, drugs and rock'n'roll phase in high school (which is shorter than in the US/Can) you will have your epiphany in Cegep which means you're mostly past that or really experienced at it when you arrive at university.

I don't do it the drugs (unless you call a need to drive 120 mph on a 65 mph highway a drug).

Jon.
post #52 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violinist
wow. Reading comprehension lessons are in order.

I'm saying the exact opposite. Prohibition makes for boring, immature people. I'm saying that I've seldom met anyone who adapts well after having been raised in a monastery (figuratively speaking), once they come here, they try to act out animal house and it ends up being pathetic... passing out int he hallway at like 10:30pm, puking everywhere after like 2 beers.. come on.
You call it reading comprehension, I call it imprecise writing. Whatever, I agree.
post #53 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdawson808
On what are you basing this?

Every school has a mix of income level, politics, and maturity. Some schools are more conservative or more liberal, but it depends on the school. The majority of my students have been mature. The ones who aren't tend to have such bad manners they overwhelm the good ones. And it has nothing to do with politics or money. And speaking of which, there is a wide spread of family income levels.

I'm not sure where you get this idea. Public or private, the student dynamic is the same. You find your group and that's who you hang with.

bob

This is not what I see. Here's a list of common traits and events: Cheating as ubiquitous and accepted as breathing, wonton destruction of one's own property (you just don't wing a $150+ TI-89T against a wall, you just don't), removal of flip flops in class or putting their feet up on the chair in front of them, pointing the soles of their shoes at the Prof (bad when she's a Turk), gross absence from classes (8:00am classes that didn't have 60% of the expected 90+ students), lots of arrests for public drunkeness and urination, horrific language (take Jon, square him, and make him yell), a senior class that pretty much trashed the new engineering computer lab the last week of class, implosion of the Greek system through insouciant lack of concern, the idea that arguing with the Prof about your grade is normal, oh I could go on.

I had a guy show up drunk for a presentation we were giving to our corporate client and a selection of faculty once. That was cool.

The majority of the student body was white, upper-middle to affluent, with a small proportion of Asian students and only a handful of Black students. To give you an idea of the affluence level, several Cayennes, Hummers in two varieties, and two Ducatis were in the undergrad vehicle fleet. BMWs, Audis, and other similar makes were common. The student population seemed very uniform and equivalent across the five colleges.

On the other hand, I went to a state school for two years -- now that was a mix. Far more international students you could acutally learn from, and a wide variety of people and cultures were represented. There were punks and goths and gamers for some variety, none of which I saw at the private institution. Further, what I thought was bad behavior there was completely eclipsed by what I saw when I moved on to 'better' places.

So one of the several points I am trying to raise is that affluence does play a role -- the private Uni suffers under the weight of entitlement the students feel. This is a common complaint from faculty and the town.Additionally, I do see a different mix going from public to private. Finally, I looked forward to this all my (yet short) life and will not be looking back on it as a high point.

Apologies for the poor diction, time is not waiting for me. BTW rd, thanks for your reply to me in an earlier thread. It bounced off the first two pages so I didn't resurrect it, but I did read it.

Regards,
Huntsman
post #54 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huntsman
This is not what I see.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are a college student and have little exposure to multiple campuses. I'll only address one of your points below. The rest of are just examples of your limited experience.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Huntsman
So one of the several points I am trying to raise is that affluence does play a role -- the private Uni suffers under the weight of entitlement the students feel.

My data are not exhaustive, but there's a bit more. I taught at a very expensive very exclusive private college where I literally had not a single student who showed any sign of the entitlement attitude. These students were from a range of income levels including the very rich. I never had the problems with them that I had a large state school (oh hell, it was Virginia Tech) where the rich kids thought they were due anything they wanted, or the other state school where they weren't rich but still had the sense of entitlement. I'm currently at a private school where it's an absolute mix.

bob
post #55 of 68
I've been biting my tongue steadily throughout this thread, but just wanted to add a few general comments.

I didn't particularly enjoy college, but not because I was surrounded by ruffians whose puerile antics kept causing my monocle to pop off into my dainty cup of Earl Grey. It was simply that my conception of college as a breeding ground for a well-rounded Renaissance education seemed to be out of whack with all the career farming, forcing of excessive academic specialization, and administrators' attempting to use student life as experiments for their Marxist pet theories on social welfare. The students and the socialization were what I enjoyed most.

But some of these posts are amusingly pompous. You mean these college students imbibe intoxicating spirits? And they tend to pursue physical gratification, even to the point of occasional fornication? THE HORROR! Someone please think of the children! At least my university didn't have a department of "Inserting a stick in your ass."

I'm not saying that college kids aren't prone to being immature, or that a disinterest in getting drunk and getting laid makes one an automatic loser. But the superiority complex about the notion that there's something terribly wrong with the idea young people might like to explore newfound freedoms after growing up in a relatively restrictive social climate that basically tells them, "Now that you're old enough to do adult things and live free of parental/high school control, you have exactly four-five years to experiment independently before you have to turn into another faceless office drone." I think there are flaws in the system, but I don't think the behavior of your average college student quite fits these outcries of a modern day Sodom and Gomorrah.

Since I am Charlotte Simmons was referenced, I feel like I should point out that a lot of the critical reviews of the book thought Wolfe was sensationalist, heavy-handed, and bereft of actual experience of what actually goes on in higher institutions, particularly the so-called elite ones. I would say that a few of the posts I'm replying to are not far off from that description.
post #56 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by aybojs
I didn't particularly enjoy college... It was simply that my conception of college as a breeding ground for a well-rounded Renaissance education seemed to be out of whack with all the career farming, forcing of excessive academic specialization...
I feel your pain. There is no room for the faculty to be "jacks (or jills) of all trades" and that trickles down to students. The, I think worthwhile, ideal of the liberal arts (the trivium and quadrivium as envisioned by the greeks and translated into modern education) is sliding away in most "liberal arts" colleges. This is mostly, imo, due to the "consumer" demanding an education that will automatically get them a job. Few of them seem to have grasped the (factual) notion that having a broad-based education based on critical thinking, reading comprehension, and writing, will be the best for future endeavors (except in the most specialized of jobs like ee or accounting, etc.). The most common manifestation of this is the inclusion of a business management dept as we have at my school. The other common way this comes about is in the increasing insistence that faculty publish in high quality peer-reviewed journals. But there are schools who are very concerned about it. Where I taught before, the faculty was very concerned that course offerings not be vocational or otherwise stray from the liberal arts. It's not for everyone, but maybe it is for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aybojs
and administrators' attempting to use student life as experiments for their Marxist pet theories on social welfare.
I'm not sure what you mean. I see most administrative decision as being based on (i) avoid a lawsuit, (ii) bring in tuition $$, and (iii) make the educational experience and "student life" as focused on learning as possible. bob
post #57 of 68
I've been teaching at the university level since 1987. What I have seen in that time is a change in my students.

1. Work ethic? I see a lack of passion and hard work. There are several reasons for this, but it is not specific to my discipline. Why? I feel it is a generation of students that have had helicopter parents and immediate access to just about everything. the result: why should I waste MY time with schoolwork.

2. Victims of specialization. Why read Shakespeare if I'm going to be a biologist? If a subject does not pertain specifically to my major, then that information is a waste of the student's time. This makes the idea of the well rounded education quite difficult.

3. Legal crap: As a faculty I spend more time hashing over some grade dispute. The student perception: "the teacher's a jerk." The faculty perception: "You just didn't do the work"

That's my take. There's alot of spoiled students out there and they don't make very good students. So, the faculty gets a call from an over-achieving parent who can't handle that their child has not been awarded for their mediocre performance, that they're paying for no less.
post #58 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huntsman
horrific language (take Jon, square him, and make him yell)
The horror!
post #59 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kent Wang
The horror!
The university experience must be a veritable Joseph Conrad experience.
post #60 of 68
To go off topic and maybe repeat what is in the thread somewhere, a recent news report claimed that going to college might not be economically worthwhile. (Sorry for the lack of details or a source.)

Concerning university experience, marriage between college sweethearts has been declining for a long time. Even more so if you exclude the marriages that break up soon afterward. Reportedly, in college traditional dating is also declining.

If you think about it, it's a reason for the existence of image professionals.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Chat
Styleforum › Forums › General › General Chat › University Experience