Teaching English in Japan/China/South Korea etc... - Page 3

Lots of Korea love in this thread. I know nothing about the place, although one of my best friends here did 6 yrs there teaching and loved it. That said, I know that both BrianSD and Eason did stints teaching there, both of them didn't like it and got out pretty promptly (Brian to Japan, Eason to Beijing). While I had a truly awesome time with my six days in Tokyo last month, I do agree with this assertion. I have traveled all over Asia, and a few select chunks of Europe, and found Japan to be the hardest place I have ever been to make myself understood and generally get around. yup...if I could do it over, I would have put myself through one of those 10 day Pimsleur things or something, just to get a few key phrases down (where is the ___, some numbers, ultrabasics)...I think a few basic things like that would have enhanced my trip tremendously. Lesson for next time. Thankfully I had some great ppl show me around while I was there...

To Matt: It's true strangely, I actually like teaching much more in China than in Korea. Chinese students are generally better English speakers and study harder. Working for Peking University where I get half my salary, I have a pretty unbelievably cushy jobs in terms of hours (11 classes of 40 minutes a week, Sat/Sun/Mon off) and benefits (full medical, 2-3 months of paid vacation a year). Of course, it doesn't pay so great which is the main problem with China. The other problem, is living in China where the fucking internet is censored so badly that no images even load on 90% of websites (and those are the 40% of the websites which are not blocked entirely). That said, I love living in Korea, the environment, the culture, the people, and everything else so much more than China. I think of Jeju as more or less my home and I'm pretty regularly homesick for there. After I get my Masters, I'm thinking of returning Korea to live and work. RE: the social aspect- never had a problem being shunned because of being a foreigner, but I pretty much throw myself all-in whenever I go to a new place, go out with everyone who invites me, learn the language and accept the culture. It might be tempting because it's easy, but don't hang out with other expats, they're 90% useless. Make local friends and make connections, you'll have a blast and you'll actually get something out of it. It will require that you learn the language, but you need to do that anyway. You're not going to have fun living somewhere where you can't communicate.

I'm based in Asia but have never taught English, however I have a number of friends who did when they first got out here. Based on their experiences, if you are looking at Japan, even though the quality of the experience has been in decline since the 90's, I would strongly recommend you look first and foremost at the Gov't-sponsored Japan Exchange & Teaching Programme (JET). Instead of applying for "Assistant English Teacher", consider applying for the "Coordinator of International Relations": http://www.jetprogramme.org/ http://www.jetprogramme.org/e/aspiring/positions.html Either are better "stepping stones" than working as an English teacher for one of the McEikaiwa chains (eg GEOS, AEON, ECC, GABA, etc.). The salary is going to be slightly better and it provides you with better odds than if working for a chain English conversation school or dispatch agency. In the earlier days of the JET Programme (late 80's/early 90's), some of my friends reported they were flown to Japan on business class, and while they might have been placed in some distant town, they were literally provided with the red carpet treatment. The friends I know did what the program was supposed to have provided - a positive experience of Japan. They also became fluent in the language, went back home for grad school and now hold senior executive positions. Over time, it seems that both the quality of the participants have faded (could not get a job back home aside from Best Buy or are anime nerds etc) and Japan has grown up and has gotten a bit of foreigner fatigue. These days, it's not uncommon to hear of JETs who don't pick up the language and continue to stay in Japan as language teachers after their stint. If you do apply to the program, keep in mind that you are most likely to be placed in a small town -- not Tokyo. I heard the grandson of a former US Ambassador, Daniel Baker, was lucky enough to be placed in Kyoto in 2005 due to his grandfather's former position. However, within three months he was quietly deported from Japan in late October without charges after being discovered in an unlit closet with a 6 year old girl whose panties were around her ankles. They had been alone for 20 minutes and Daniel Baker claimed they were "playing a game and that the elastic band on the panties broke itself". The girl's family was forced to take $75000 and ordered to shut up. I digress. Anyways if you do your research and discover that your hometown has a "sister city" relationship with a particularly attractive Japanese town or city (eg one in Okinawa if you like marine sports or one up in Hokkaido if you are a ski bum), make certain to mention it in your application. That's what a Canadian buddy of mine did and he had a great time up north.

Some good advice so far, I'll expand a bit (as well as squash some rumors):

When this question is asked, lately people have been extremely discouraging about living in Japan. When I was looking for a job here and I asked for advice from others, I was pretty much told flat out to not come, that it's shit pay, that you won't be happy, etc. I'm very happy that I completely ignored the discouragement, because in my experience, it's all been empty.

Living in Japan, going on my 7th month now, I can assure you that (not all) teachers in Japan are absolutely not paid shit wages. I make about $31,500 a year, which sounds pretty low, but considering I work only 19 hours a week, rent (for a 3-room apartment) and utilities cap out at under $650 and my company pays for my business-related transportation, I certainly am not complaining.

Last year I did Korea, and while you do make a little bit more money (not as much as many would have it seem, however), there is a stark contrast in the overall mood of living abroad there. In Japan, people don't assume you're just some temporary backpacker on the way to your next job, or that you'll be gone in the next month. On the contrary, I feel much more welcome and integrated into Japan, even after only the first month than I ever did in Korea. The food is better, the people are nicer, the sightseeing/intra-Japan travel is infinitely better, and most importantly (to me) there are a wealth of job opportunities for those willing to learn the language and assimilate - unlike Korea, where education is the really the only field a foreigner can easily get into. I assume this is because Japan has been westernizing for a much longer period of time, and has less stringent visa restrictions, but there's no doubt that there's work for foreigners who can speak Japanese.

My company doesn't dick me around, they aren't ending anyone's contract unexpectedly, and in general have been a great stepping stone to get me in. It's true that I plan to leave them in the next few months, but that's because I have my sights set farther up.

The biggest problem with teaching in Japan is that it's so easy when you fight the right job, that you can easily become too comfortable with a fun day-to-day life, and that 1 year contract has soon turned into 5 or 6 years, you're sitting around with almost no marketable skill set, and a salary that only increased 5% or so over your first year. That fucking sucks, and that's the biggest problem I can see with coming to Japan.

OK, I stand semi-corrected then. I remember some whining IM chats when you were living there, guess I over-insinuated from those. Hell, I whine about living here all the time, but I basically love it... this is great advice, whether you are in Asia or for any of those 'how do I meet new people' questions which seem to come up about twice a week....

Does anyone have any JET experience? I'm graduating university this year, and moving to toronto for the next 8-12 months. After that, however, I'd love to give JET a try. I hear everything from "Best time ever" to "If you don't know japanese, you'll have no fun whatsoever".

This was reasonably true about 15 years ago. However, as others in this thread have said, the place became flooded with foreign ESL teachers looking for a quick buck. I'm no expert at all, but my impression is that wages for English teachers have hardly risen in Japan for about the last 15 years - a reasonable job would pay about $36k per year back then (which was a really good entry-level salary at the time) and would still pay something like that now (which is not so impressive anymore).


In my trips to Japan, I've been quite surprised by the number of people whom I've met who speak no Japanese whatsoever and despite the language barrier, they all seemed to be having a great time.

Clearly, having some Japanese language skills make your time there a great deal easier. However, as someone else said, the difference between being a social outcast and a party animal is really up to you. I've never taught English but I have known people who, without speaking Japanese, nonetheless ended up with a huge circle of Japanese friends and who had a great time. Then there were the geeks who tended to hang out by themselves or in a geek group, where they would discuss Gundam and wishfully wonder how they could manage to sleep with a virtual construct of some chick from an anime movie.

I have no professional knowledge of whether it will help you or not but some of the my English-teaching acquaintances did a one-month intensive certificate course before they travelled to Asia to become teachers, like the CELTA or Trinity certifications. This at least gave them some lesson-planning and brief, practical classroom experience so that they didn't go in cold. As far as I remember, such a qualification (in Australia at least) costs around $2500, so you'd recoup your outlay in a couple of months and it might make getting a job, and then actually doing the job, easier.

Some things to keep in mind- working overseas is not the same as traveling- fairly soon wherever you're based in Japan, it will get very monotonous and the inconvenience of things will overwhelm their novelty. You will also find that Japan, and Asia, are very status-oriented places and English teachers are not very high up there. It's a bit of running joke/insult to various young gaijin. Your BA is equivalent to a high school degree 40 years ago... I would finish off your education with a more professional degree before setting out for the world. Just my own opinion as a pragmatist, if you're more idealistic though, go for it

To you fellas who have done this, how did you get started? Did you poke around on google til you found something? Did you find a job through your school? Did you use a recruiter? Excuse me if these are naive questions. I really don't know much about the process.

And it is depending on what you are looking for. I've met far fewer teachers who go to Korea after being in Japan and far more that go from Korea to Japan and swear they will never return to Korea.

In many cases they are willing to bare the higher expenses (and therefore less savings) because Japan can be a very very very cool place to live.


If you are all about the money, you may want to weigh your options, but if you're looking for the awesome factor in living then go to Japan, depending on what kind of person you are.

If money is really secondary go to Thailand - that food, those beaches, the jungles, BUT don't plan on making much.

It really depends on what your priorities are.

Then again, it's not like these nations are very far from one another. Just pick one and travel regionally, and make up your mind if you want to stay or move to another nation after your contract is up.



I don't know if there is a university across N. America where you can walk and not see an ad for ESL or meet someone who is off to do ESL. And since ESL teachers have to have 4-year Uni degrees, it's maybe less about knowing about it, and more a question if it really registers in your head to do it.

If I decide to give up on life, forget my masters, career, etc, I'd just move to Thailand.

Maybe, but I've always said that if one even speaks, even entertains the thought but for one fleeting moment, of making a career out of ESL teaching they've ALREADY given up on life.

Of course, this is a very idiosyncratic thought.

I thought that too, until I realized that personal trainers and exercise specialists are doomed to slaving away with no career advancement for low wages or slave away in the barren Midwest for slightly better wages. Sometimes I have nightmares I'm still personal training. THEY DON'T LISTEN TO WHAT YOU TELL THEM.