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Shoe Damage Report & Shoe P0rn Central - Part II - Page 538

post #8056 of 19232
Quote:
Originally Posted by greekgeek View Post

American version.






HA! A vintage man after my own heart. By the way, when you get the chance, please send me those vintage shoe pics you mentioned.
post #8057 of 19232
o8umb4.jpg
alden ravello
argyles otc
post #8058 of 19232
Quote:
Originally Posted by fritzl View Post


alright, let's forget for a second that the second pair is a dover. imo, and to my mind, it's rather obvious that a heel counter is breaking the lines of the "wholecut" concept from the original norweger. i'm pretty much convinced that the norweger is predestinated for bespoke or to makers who can read a last and understand the importance of authenticity.
i cannot buy in the groupthink that this has become a fashion item or at least a darling hence to the fact: when porty boy has one, it must be good.
sorry, i'm definitely not for that.
in addition, i'm not biased at all. though, let's face it, it's a shoe and the perfect execution which accompanies me since my interest in shoes has arisen.
just my two cents.


IDon't fully understand you G.  Vass calls the Norweger flamboyant and controversial ,and a variation of the Blucher, but nowhere (I Know of) a whole-cut.  

 

A whole-cut upper, with none or one functional seam, usually at the back, is different to the Norweger in the Vass iteration with 3 seams and a 3 piece upper.  The Dover has 4 seams, and a counter which you've said doesn't balance.  To my eye it does exactly that.  

 

Looking side on, the Dover's centrepoint has a piecrust vamp on one side, and the rounded counter on the other.  To me that's balance, and it's consistent with the fact that the Norweger is a variant of the Derby, which commonly does have a counter.  

 

The Dover may be a hybrid, but it's hard to deny the craft of it.  The ghosted split toe seam, and the piecrust top seam have more complex work than the Vass version hands down.  I'd hate to see that skill decline.

 

What I really like about the Norweger idea is its stability and simplicity of design.  In its purest form the Norweger is just 3 pieces of leather stitched together to provide a roomy, toe-friendly chamber. Like a moccasin.

 

 As for 'fashion item', the Norweger is as fashionable as Porty boy is a trend setter-  which is to say not at all.  No offence to him, but has he even posted in the last couple years?  And has anyone replaced him? No Norweger, no matter who rocks it, will ever have the cache of a sleek bal, more's the pity, because in the rite context have just the right combination of informality, comfort and simplicity .

 

 

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by greekgeek View Post

American version.

 

cheers.gif maybe not black tho.
 

 

post #8059 of 19232
Quote:
Originally Posted by fritzl View Post

......a heel counter is breaking the lines of the "wholecut" concept from the original norweger. i'm pretty much convinced that the norweger is predestinated for bespoke or to makers who can read a last and understand the importance of authenticity.

Here is a video in Norwegian (language) showing a Norwegian (Jan Petter Myhre) making a Norwegian (shoe).
Can it get more authentic than that? That shoe has, shock, horror, a heel-counter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fritzl View Post

......i'm not biased at all.

Goodness - Nobody would presume that!!!
post #8060 of 19232
Quote:
Originally Posted by aj_del View Post

I bought the Ron Rider NSTs before this. They also looked great but there were some issues with that particular pair and I had to return those.
Ron's pic
2-dec-08-036.jpg

I think these are great. Any more information on them? Cannot find any on the web at all. Still able to purchased?
post #8061 of 19232
I dont think they are in production any longer
Edited by aj_del - 11/26/11 at 5:33am
post #8062 of 19232
Quote:
Originally Posted by fritzl View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by luk-cha View Post

the vass and the EG are great looking but i dont like the desing of the halmos seems neather here nor there to me but still looks a well made shoe

alright, let's forget for a second that the second pair is a dover. imo, and to my mind, it's rather obvious that a heel counter is breaking the lines of the "wholecut" concept from the original norweger. i'm pretty much convinced that the norweger is predestinated for bespoke or to makers who can read a last and understand the importance of authenticity.

i cannot buy in the groupthink that this has become a fashion item or at least a darling hence to the fact: when porty boy has one, it must be good.
sorry, i'm definitely not for that.

in addition, i'm not biased at all. though, let's face it, it's a shoe and the perfect execution which accompanies me since my interest in shoes has arisen.

just my two cents.

on the dover i dont get why there need to be a HC other than for strengthening the support of the ancle or its an English thing, i do like the clean lines of the vass but i prefer the wat the dover is hand stitched on the vamp

on the halmos that to me is just a mess design wises and looks like a italian shoe pretending to be a US syled version - big fail for me!
post #8063 of 19232
Quote:
Originally Posted by luk-cha View Post

.....on the dover i dont get why there need to be a HC other than for strengthening......

I do believe the heel-counter balances the heavy toe, so it makes the shoe less front-heavy. By the same token, French makers like to run an additional seam below the top line (this example is Weston’s “Chasse”).

westonchasse.jpg

Presumably it serves the same purpose as the heel-counter: adding a ying to the yang and making the design more balanced.

yin-yang-symbol.jpg
post #8064 of 19232
Quote:
Originally Posted by bengal-stripe View Post

I do believe the heel-counter balances the heavy toe, so it makes the shoe less front-heavy. By the same token, French makers like to run an additional seam below the top line (this example is Weston’s “Chasse”).
westonchasse.jpg
Presumably it serves the same purpose as the heel-counter: adding a ying to the yang and making the design more balanced.
yin-yang-symbol.jpg

that's a Grail Shoe for me.
post #8065 of 19232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pliny View Post


The Dover may be a hybrid, but it's hard to deny the craft of it.
 

i do, anyway.
post #8066 of 19232
Quote:
Originally Posted by luk-cha View Post

... but i prefer the wat the dover is hand stitched on the vamp
!

the vass looks handstitched to me.
post #8067 of 19232
Quote:
Originally Posted by isshinryu101 View Post

HA! A vintage man after my own heart. By the way, when you get the chance, please send me those vintage shoe pics you mentioned.

Ah yes, coming soon. Turns out I deleted those which I had already taken...
post #8068 of 19232
Quote:
Originally Posted by fritzl View Post


the vass looks handstitched to me.

 

be interested in DWF 's opinion-  they look handstiched to me, which adds to the rusticity and authenticity.  But then so does the C&J Onslow in cordovan (bottom) with its irregularites,  and I'd be surprised if it's a hand job.  Anyone know ?

 


100_0971.JPG

100_0974.JPG

 

100_0977.JPG

 

Vass P2 Chestnut 6319 068.jpg

 

 

 

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by isshinryu101 View Post


that's a Grail Shoe for me.

 

Issh-  for me too, although whenever I see it in user pics it looks a little blobby and bulky.  A real beater.  Have to wait to see it in person.
 

 

post #8069 of 19232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pliny View Post


be interested in DWF 's opinion-  they look handstiched to me, which adds to the rusticity and authenticity.  But then so does the C&J Onslow in cordovan (bottom) with its irregularites,  and I'd be surprised if it's a hand job.  Anyone know ?


How can you know for sure? The only one that is absolutely certainly hand stitched is the upper left hand shoe. The stitching on the apron is "split and lift" and that cannot be done by machine.

That said, at a guess I would say they were all hand stitched.
post #8070 of 19232
FWIW, in the new CJ catalog, there are 2 models in the handgrade range with the apron and they are explicitly mentioned as hands titched. The models in the benchgrade line are silent as to the stitching aspect
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