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Shoe Damage Report & Shoe P0rn Central - Part II - Page 1290

post #19336 of 20750
This is what he did to the Trickers and some other boots with extensive wear/use.








Another pair with what I assume to be a new leather insole with new holdfast?

post #19337 of 20750
Quote:
Originally Posted by j ingevaldsson View Post

^^^ Pretty much all cobblers do the welt stitch by hand if they need to change the welt, and make a new welt stitch. Since it's not a pretty common operation, it makes no sense to have a huge and expensive Goodyear machine taking up place in your workshop. The only pro against a machine made welt stitch would be that the cobbler does a lock stitch, but to say that the shoe is made into a hand welted shoe doesn't make sense.

Pretty much right although rewelting the entire shoe when it is not needed, doesn't make a lot of sense--which addresses Issy's question.
post #19338 of 20750
Quote:
Originally Posted by isshinryu101 View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
782ebd3e_image.jpeg

I was simply asking a very good question about your claims.

Chogall has found this photo and shown that the shoeman did NOT "not create a new holdfast on a new insole", but rather simply attached a new welt to the Glued On Gemming.

This is NOT a true "handwelt" (which uses a feather handcarved into the insole).

I suggest that you follow your own advice and "(be) educated on a subject helps when commenting on it."


I do intend to find out the truth as well. I was told that a new leather insole was used and the holdfast was hand carved.

I am guessing he uses a new insole and hand carves a holdfast for resoles/rebuilds of boots with extensive wear but for boots that are new or with little wear, he does the handwelted gemming thing.
post #19339 of 20750
Quote:
Originally Posted by arahat View Post

This is what he did to the Trickers and some other boots with extensive wear/use.

It's hard to tell what he's doing from the photos. And the terminology he's using doesn't help. A "footbed" is what happens to a good leather "insole" after it has been worn a while. It is not the same as the insole.

I know this may seem pedantic to people that really don't know...or care...but knowing and using the proper terminology is important, otherwise we may as well be grunting at each other.

For instance an insole is not "carved," it is channeled, feathered and sometimes holed prior to ineaming. Sockliners are not insoles. Hand sewn gemming is not handwelted construction. And "handwelted Goodyear" is an oxymoron. There is no such thing...and those who insist on using that terminology perpetuate misconceptions and misinformation. I'm not dissing your friend, I'm speaking in a broader sense since we see a lot of this incorrect terminology used, and even promoted, here.

--
post #19340 of 20750
It looks like he glues an additional layer of leather and welt on it. Don't think he replaces the insole for the top one.

For the bottom one it looks interesting; there's a lot of gap between upper nailed at the heel and the insole, and the cavity creates by the welt and the insole is quite pronounced with his technique of no carved holdfast.

Maybe DWFII could shine some light on the issues.
post #19341 of 20750
Quote:
Originally Posted by arahat View Post

This is what he did to the Trickers and some other boots with extensive wear/use.








Another pair with what I assume to be a new leather insole with new holdfast?

 

The insoles on those pics looks weird. Judging by Brian's comments on this photo, where he more or less states that he "converts" it to a hand welted shoe, I'm not sure what this guy means really:

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


Pretty much right although rewelting the entire shoe when it is not needed, doesn't make a lot of sense--which addresses Issy's question.

 

Yeah sure.

post #19342 of 20750
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

It looks like he glues an additional layer of leather and welt on it. Don't think he replaces the insole for the top one.

For the bottom one it looks interesting; there's a lot of gap between upper nailed at the heel and the insole, and the cavity creates by the welt and the insole is quite pronounced with his technique of no carved holdfast.

Maybe DWFII could shine some light on the issues.

I don't want to get too far into this...it already feels like we're criticizing him rather than examining or analyzing the techniques or materials.

I just can't tell much from the photos. If I had to guess I would say that in all of them, except the one with the obvious gemming, the leather is soft...not at all like what I would consider a Traditional insole. I don't see any evidence of a channel or a holdfast...in the Traditional sense of the word...and very little to suggest a "feather." If I'm seeing what I think I'm seeing, it puts me in mind of a "sacchetto."

It's different, that much seems obvious.

And to the extent that the gemming is by-passed or reinforced...without distorting the fit or shape...better than what was there originally.
post #19343 of 20750
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

Without the original last it's kind of an exercise in wishful thinking. If the gemming has failed so extensively that rewelting to a new insole is the only option, the question becomes whether the shoe is worth the effort. An effort that involves several hours of labour and materials that were not originally present.

Does it make sense? I suppose everything is relative but again without the original last, it's hard to see how.

I do know one Hongkong shoemaker will do this kind of job for their customer. In the old day it made good sense. Since at that time a pair of Church shoes may be around HKD2,000 and replace the insole and welted by hand with a new sole may be just around a thousand. But now, it doesn't make sense at all. But they do have old customer asking for that.
post #19344 of 20750
Quote:
Originally Posted by edmorel View Post

Navy scotch grain goyser stitched double monks.




Ed, who makes these shoes? They're great-looking.
post #19345 of 20750
Quote:
Originally Posted by Von Franz View Post

Ed, who makes these shoes? They're great-looking.


Buday. You can check my tumblr for better pics. Or better yet, check my site to buy them.
post #19346 of 20750
Quote:
Originally Posted by edmorel View Post

Buday. You can check my tumblr for better pics. Or better yet, check my site to buy them.
Are these on the site, Ed? Didn't see them yesterday
post #19347 of 20750

Found 'em. Here's the link.

 

http://www.pantaclothing.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=BD8

 

Wish I could afford some Budays at the moment.

 

Love the styling, especially, but the quality looks incredible. 

 

 

-VF

post #19348 of 20750
those look badass!!
post #19349 of 20750
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishball View Post

I do know one Hongkong shoemaker will do this kind of job for their customer. In the old day it made good sense. Since at that time a pair of Church shoes may be around HKD2,000 and replace the insole and welted by hand with a new sole may be just around a thousand. But now, it doesn't make sense at all. But they do have old customer asking for that.

Fishball are these the guys left over from that old store in the Peninsula - can't remember the name for the life of me. Lee Kee??

I can't believe there are not a few great shoemakers left in HKG who were trained by those guys.
post #19350 of 20750
Quote:
Originally Posted by meister View Post

Fishball are these the guys left over from that old store in the Peninsula - can't remember the name for the life of me. Lee Kee??

I can't believe there are not a few great shoemakers left in HKG who were trained by those guys.

No, I am not talking about Lee Kee.
Most of the shoemakers as well as tailors are near their late 70s, few of them who were trained at 1970s reach 60s already.
I just know last month, one of my tailors (maker) retired.
Can you believe that my shoemaker is still working everyday (just few hours) and he is 92 now? ( He is not the real maker though, I think he just make the forme)
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