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Shoe Damage Report & Shoe P0rn Central - Part II - Page 1288

post #19306 of 20782
Quote:
Originally Posted by isshinryu101 View Post


I have no idea what holds the shoe together in bottom right, as the insole is not sewn to anything.

That's the problem with people posting stuff found on the internet (or from books) when the person posting doesn't really understand and/or can't explain. No connection/no responsibility.

I'm not completely conversant with this type of construction but I agree, the shoe in the bottom right doesn't seem possible regardless of what it's called.

I suspect the illustration is incorrect.
post #19307 of 20782
Following some cobblers' and shoemakers' less than perfect embedded steel toe taps installation, I'm tempted to try it myself. Does anyone know where to buy them and have any advise on how to install them? I figure it's just shaping them to fit the toe, file down the toe leather and screwing them in.
post #19308 of 20782
Quote:
Originally Posted by isshinryu101 View Post


Same with top left and bottom right. Both are similar and both resemble Norvegese/ norwegian stitch. They are differentiating between the 2, calling the bottom right "norvegese" and top left "norwegian". However, Santoni, Lattaniz and most other makers DO attach the norv stitch into the topsole (via feather) and call it "norvegese" (just like the top left mis-labeled figure.

I have no idea what holds the shoe together in bottom right, as the insole is not sewn to anything.

Have another look.

Basically the two drawings are the same construction method, one with an inside feather and the other one “Norvegese” in the standard Italian technique without a feather, just poked through the insole. (Yes, I know in the drawing the stitch should have come from significantly further back, otherwise it is likely to tear out of the insole.)






But the main difference between the Italian “Norvegese” and the “Norwegian” construction is not featured in the drawing: it is the step formed by the narrow-cut upper leather on top of the mid sole (taking the function of the welt). First row of stitching goes from the inside of the shoe to the outside of the upper leather, enabling the upper to be folded out. Second row goes down through the upper lather and the mid-sole. Subsequently the upper is cut very narrow forming a step. Then a third row of stitches is placed at the bottom of the step, going through mid-sole and outer sole.

Here is “Norvegese” on a shoe by Lattanzi showing the step formed by the upper leather. (The third row of stitching is omitted, so the second row goes all the way down through the outsole). Don’t let anyone be confused by the absence of a “spinning” or cable stich. That stitch has no function and is purely decorative (and is also employed to hide the large stitches used in the construction).



A few years back, Marcell Mrasan did publish an extremely detailed photo essay on his take on Norwegian. He does cut an inside feather, but as I said many (most?, all?) Italian shoemakers do not bother with that.

http://shoesandcraft.com/2011/07/03/norwegian-sewn-shoe-turorial-i/
http://shoesandcraft.com/2010/01/12/shoemaking-tutorial-norwegian-ii/
http://shoesandcraft.com/2010/01/15/shoemaking-tutorial-norwegian-iii/
http://shoesandcraft.com/2011/07/26/norwegian-sewn-tutorial-part-iv/
http://shoesandcraft.com/2011/07/27/norwegian-sewn-tutorial-part-v/
http://shoesandcraft.com/2011/08/04/norwegian-final-part/
post #19309 of 20782
Quote:
Originally Posted by bengal-stripe View Post

Have another look.

Thank you for that. And thank you for the links to Marcel's tutorial.

It is a poorly done drawing, however. There is really no indication that the stitch is begun aloft on the insole or that the stitch is attached to the insole itself. And if the "main difference" is the narrow cut upper, then the drawings are not only inaccurate but almost cartoons.
post #19310 of 20782
Quote:
Originally Posted by p.henrik View Post

Following some cobblers' and shoemakers' less than perfect embedded steel toe taps installation, I'm tempted to try it myself. Does anyone know where to buy them and have any advise on how to install them? I figure it's just shaping them to fit the toe, file down the toe leather and screwing them in.

id also like to know this
post #19311 of 20782
Japanesee magazines might be prone to imitate and praise everything European/American but they are definitely very conscientious regarding methodologies.

I do not think shoemaking can be classified with merely drawings of 2D cross sections but they definitely did a great job trying to capture the nuances.
post #19312 of 20782
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

Japanesee magazines might be prone to imitate and praise everything European/American but they are definitely very conscientious regarding methodologies.

I do not think shoemaking can be classified with merely drawings of 2D cross sections but they definitely did a great job trying to capture the nuances.

Sorry, I have to disagree with that...at least in this instance. Maybe something is lost in translation.

I've done that work, perhaps not well, but I've done it. (I am wearing a pair, that I work in, as I write this that are Norwegian with a storm welt.) Yet I could not determine what was being illustrated in the bottom right (Norvegese) drawing. It did occur to me that the stitching might begin on the underside of the insole but I dismissed that thought out of hand simply because it seemed simple enough that if the illustrator meant that, he could have depicted it a lot more clearly. The fact that the interior end of the stitch was depicted so close to the vamp lining seemed to reinforce the idea that the illustration was incorrect.

Aforementioned work shoes in process--6 ounce oil-stuffed cow w/ 2 ounce calf lining.




post #19313 of 20782
Here are interesting shoes by Stefano Bemer (Goodyear welted + Norvegese).

http://unionworks.blog118.fc2.com/blog-entry-1668.html

CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v80), quality = 92
CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v80), quality = 92
CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v80), quality = 92
CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v80), quality = 92
CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v80), quality = 92
Edited by VegTan - 9/6/14 at 2:55am
post #19314 of 20782
Quote:
Originally Posted by VegTan View Post

Here are interesting shoes by Stefano Bemer (Goodyear welted + Norvegese).

Where is the Goodyear welted?
post #19315 of 20782
@DWFII

Here is a second inseam.

c5c6cbc2_s_DSCF2036.jpeg
post #19316 of 20782
Quote:
Originally Posted by VegTan View Post

@DWFII

Here is a second inseam.

c5c6cbc2_s_DSCF2036.jpeg

I don't know what I'm looking at there. It's not clear to me how this is constructed.

But beyond that is this "second inseam" sewn with a Goodyear machine?
post #19317 of 20782
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

I don't know what I'm looking at there. It's not clear to me how this is constructed.

But beyond that is this "second inseam" sewn with a Goodyear machine?

Oh, I'm sorry, they may be hand-sewn welted + norvegese.

The cobbler explains two rows of inseams with the following picture.

CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v80), quality = 92
Edited by VegTan - 9/6/14 at 2:58am
post #19318 of 20782
Added these, I need to get my browns back up
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)




post #19319 of 20782
Is this even possible?

http://www.styleforum.net/t/417427/modified-handwelted-shell-cordovan-trickers-by-brian-the-bootmaker

Convert a goodyear welted shoe to a hand-welt? Maybe use a new insole, carve out a feather and resew it to a new welt? Resew the new welt to the holes already present in the uppers from the goodyear? Does this even make sense to do?
post #19320 of 20782
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

I don't know what I'm looking at there. It's not clear to me how this is constructed.

But beyond that is this "second inseam" sewn with a Goodyear machine?

Poster missed this photo...



I am not a fan of the "Norvegese with Goodyear Welt" construction. It is an oxymoron. Norvegese has NO WELT by definition. If you add a welt, then it is no longer norvegese. This is Goodyear Welted... FAUX Norvegese.

On a side note, I can't help but being saddened by that glued on piece of fabric that passes as a "quality construction". Somehow it just doesn't seem right for shoes north of $1k.
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