or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › Shoe Damage Report & Shoe P0rn Central - Part II
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Shoe Damage Report & Shoe P0rn Central - Part II - Page 1195

post #17911 of 19808
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desiette View Post
 


There are what maybe a 1000 elephants left in the universe and over 10 billion humans. Iam all for human leather, if it will spare the life of the elephants. Unlike elephants, these humans actually had a say in what was done to their skin.

 

Funny you should talk about selective quoting.

 

There are around 600,000 African elephants.  Protected wildlife reserves where licensed hunts are permitted, are an essential and sustainable part of their conservation.  I've never met a cow who volunteered to be my shoes, but then I've also never known an animal in which human care is invested, to be wasted either.  I'm all for humane treatment, managed conservation and the dignity of the natural world.  But really, a thread about high quality shoes is probably not the natural home of the militant vegan.  Especially if you're going to just make things up. :)

post #17912 of 19808
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWraith View Post

That human leather website has been talked about several times before here on SF, and I think the consensus previously reached was that it was a hoax website.

After reading it all I came to the same conclusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mimo View Post

Funny you should talk about selective quoting.

There are around 600,000 African elephants.  Protected wildlife reserves where licensed hunts are permitted, are an essential and sustainable part of their conservation.  I've never met a cow who volunteered to be my shoes, but then I've also never known an animal in which human care is invested, to be wasted either.  I'm all for humane treatment, managed conservation and the dignity of the natural world.  But really, a thread about high quality shoes is probably not the natural home of the militant vegan.  Especially if you're going to just make things up. smile.gif
Would militant vegans be pro human leather? biggrin.gif
post #17913 of 19808
Just something that's come up.

Flickr have decided to stuff around with a perfectly good system such that I can't upload a snap to a forum.

Anyone know what's happened?
post #17914 of 19808
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimo View Post

Funny you should talk about selective quoting.

There are around 600,000 African elephants.  Protected wildlife reserves where licensed hunts are permitted, are an essential and sustainable part of their conservation.  I've never met a cow who volunteered to be my shoes, but then I've also never known an animal in which human care is invested, to be wasted either.  I'm all for humane treatment, managed conservation and the dignity of the natural world.  But really, a thread about high quality shoes is probably not the natural home of the militant vegan.  Especially if you're going to just make things up. smile.gif

And...most, if not all, of the elephant hides coming into the US and other western countries are from animals that are culled from herds to protect the rest of the population from disease, starvation or other pressures. Most, if not all, elephant herds are, as Mimo stated, carefully managed in protected preserves. Animals that wander outside those preserves are are far more subject to indiscriminate slaughter...by locals ...than animals within. And in most of those cases the hides are left to rot in the sun while the tusks are harvested for sale in those, mostly Asian, countries where international agreements such as CITES are not respected or adhered to.

That said, the hides of animals harvested illegally or by locals for food are not allowed to be exported or imported by countries party to CITES.

Elephant is highly regulated by CITES and permits to export or import are not issued unless the hide can be certified as having been "legally obtained &(sic) the trade will not be detrimental to the survival of the species."
post #17915 of 19808
J - thats another purchase that's so full of win. Congrats man.
post #17916 of 19808
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimo View Post
 

 

Funny you should talk about selective quoting.

 

There are around 600,000 African elephants.  Protected wildlife reserves where licensed hunts are permitted, are an essential and sustainable part of their conservation.  I've never met a cow who volunteered to be my shoes, but then I've also never known an animal in which human care is invested, to be wasted either.  I'm all for humane treatment, managed conservation and the dignity of the natural world.  But really, a thread about high quality shoes is probably not the natural home of the militant vegan.  Especially if you're going to just make things up. :)

The figure of 600,000 you are quoting is from 1989. African elehpants are listed as vulnerable while Asian elephants are still listed as endangered.

You talk about a cow in which "human care" has been invested. If you can call  gestation crates and the practice of shooting them up full of antibiotics, as caring.

Next to the food industry, the fashion industry is the worst offender of animal (not to mention human) rights abuses. Iam a huge fashion phile and love high end design as much as anyone else on this forum. Designers like Stella McCartney and Mat&Nat have proven that it is indeed possible to enjoy high quality fashion without resorting to bloodbaths and peeling the skin off a newly born calf.

So you see, this thread is exactly the place to talk about this subject. There is a lot more to fashion than just posting pics of cute shoes and asking what people think of them.

Even from a demand/supply point of view, the resource being used needs to be sustainable. Stripping every other living creature of its skin, will leave us to face the ultimate reality of human leather, since that is all there will be left.

post #17917 of 19808
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desiette View Post

The figure of 600,000 you are quoting is from 1989. African elehpants are listed as vulnerable while Asian elephants are still listed as endangered.
You talk about a cow in which "human care" has been invested. If you can call  gestation crates and the practice of shooting them up full of antibiotics, as caring.
Next to the food industry, the fashion industry is the worst offender of animal (not to mention human) rights abuses. Iam a huge fashion phile and love high end design as much as anyone else on this forum. Designers like Stella McCartney and Mat&Nat have proven that it is indeed possible to enjoy high quality fashion without resorting to bloodbaths and peeling the skin off a newly born calf.
So you see, this thread is exactly the place to talk about this subject. There is a lot more to fashion than just posting pics of cute shoes and asking what people think of them.
Even from a demand/supply point of view, the resource being used needs to be sustainable. Stripping every other living creature of its skin, will leave us to face the ultimate reality of human leather, since that is all there will be left.
But that's just not true, is it?
post #17918 of 19808
Apologies if my numbers are out of date. Where did your number of under "1000 left in the Universe" come from?
post #17919 of 19808
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimo View Post

Apologies if my numbers are out of date. Where did your number of under "1000 left in the Universe" come from?

Exactly! I hear there are trillions of elephants on Zug
post #17920 of 19808
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimo View Post

Apologies if my numbers are out of date. Where did your number of under "1000 left in the Universe" come from?

The World Wildlife fund estimates "elephant populations in southern Africa are large and expanding, with some 300,000 elephants now roaming across the sub-region." This does not include West or East African populations.

The Elephant Database keeps track of elephant populations world-wide. The 2012 Continental Totals ("2013 AFRICA" analysis) lists, if I'm reading the charts correctly, 61,835 individuals in the "definite" ground count category and 419,120 from all other means of determining population. Most of the data is drawn up in close collaboration with the IUCN SSC African Elephant Specialist Group.

I've seen other reports and data that suggest that the one of the major threats to elephant populations is "conflict" between elephants and local peoples. Nowhere is there any evidence that the controlled harvesting of dead, dying, or diseased individuals for the hides has any impact on elephant populations. In fact, the income derived from such harvesting is a significant percentage of the needed funding to keep preserves and parks...where elephants are protected...open. Without such protection, without the funding that comes from the harvesting, elephant populations would be in far more precarious straits than they are.

And while this is very nearly the definition of "sustainable resource," it is worth noting that it wouldn't be happening at all...and elephants might very well be extinct already...if it weren't for the intervention of international agencies and the establishment of protected areas and protected populations.
Quote:
Land use pressure, habitat loss, human elephant conflict, and illegal killing for both meat and ivory continue to pose threats to the long-term survival of elephant populations across Africa. Recent research also points to climate change and the increasing frequency of droughts as a major threat to elephant populations in the Sudano-Sahelian region (Bouché, 2012). Human-elephant conflict in particular continues to pose a serious challenge across much of the range. Although a number of innovative methods are emerging to add to the toolbox to help mitigate this conflict (Graham et al., 2011; King, 2011), long-term land use planning and cooperative management of elephant populations with local communities are required to provide sustainable solutions.

The rise in levels of illegal killing and the dynamics surrounding it are worrying, not only for small and fragmented elephant populations that could face extirpation, but also for previously secure large populations. Conflict situations are known to deteriorate further the poor protection afforded to elephants (Beyers et al., 2011) and this is of concern in particular for areas with emerging and ongoing instability. At a minimum, armed conflict hampers monitoring activities. Reports of poisoning as a method of illegally killing elephants have emerged from a number of sites in Southern and Eastern Africa, and further investigation of this dynamic is necessary.

The most recent analysis from the Elephant Trade Information System notes that illicit trade in ivory has greatly increased, reaching the highest level in at least the last 16 years. The frequency of large-scale ivory seizures (more than 800 kg) has also increased, indicating a highly-organized illegal ivory supply chain.

--
Edited by DWFII - 11/25/13 at 9:34am
post #17921 of 19808
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

And...most, if not all, of the elephant hides coming into the US and other western countries are from animals that are culled from herds to protect the rest of the population from disease, starvation or other pressures. Most, if not all, elephant herds are, as Mimo stated, carefully managed in protected preserves. Animals that wander outside those preserves are are far more subject to indiscriminate slaughter...by locals ...than animals within. And in most of those cases the hides are left to rot in the sun while the tusks are harvested for sale in those, mostly Asian, countries where international agreements such as CITES are not respected or adhered to.

That said, the hides of animals harvested illegally or by locals for food are not allowed to be exported or imported by countries party to CITES.

Elephant is highly regulated by CITES and permits to export or import are not issued unless the hide can be certified as having been "legally obtained &(sic) the trade will not be detrimental to the survival of the species."

If you have ever been to a game park in Africa you would appreciate what overpopulation of elephants can do to vegetation.
post #17922 of 19808
Quote:
Originally Posted by meister View Post

If you have ever been to a game park in Africa you would appreciate what overpopulation of elephants can do to vegetation.

Right you are. I've never been but I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night! crackup[1].gif And, I've seen documentaries on exactly that subject.

With human beings spreading out and encroaching on traditional elephant habitat, Africa may not ever again be able to support the numbers it supported back in the 1930's.

Frankly, I think the numbers that still exist now are something we...you and I and the international community...can take a certain amount of pride in. With out the intervention and, yes, interference of outsiders, Loxodonta africana would be one with the ages, I fear.
post #17923 of 19808
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desiette View Post
 


There are what maybe a 1000 elephants left in the universe and over 10 billion humans. Iam all for human leather, if it will spare the life of the elephants. Unlike elephants, these humans actually had a say in what was done to their skin.

 

Get your PETA ass out of the shoe tread.

post #17924 of 19808
Quote:
Originally Posted by isshinryu101 View Post

1950's Edwin Clapp Saddle Oxfords, 10D.

The ST is one of the most gorgeous skins of all time. Such a shame they were hunted so heavily in the 1980's. I don't see even the Japanese (who will use Sealskin in a heartbeat) breaking CITES and using them. Of course, in the 1950's, ST was 100% legal and still abundant.



wow ... that's cool

post #17925 of 19808
Quote:
Originally Posted by drlivingston View Post

Tough crowd, lol. I will stick with cow and horse shoes from now on.

nah. post what u like. I personally enjoy the "different" posts just as much as the mainstream.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Classic Menswear
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › Shoe Damage Report & Shoe P0rn Central - Part II