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Shoe Damage Report & Shoe P0rn Central - Part II - Page 1186

post #17776 of 19098
Patina is something that is acquired through natural processes such as use, aging, and yes, polishing, although there's a logical caveat implied by that. This is as true for leather as it is for wood, silver, or stone.

Antiquing (as a verb) is a visual affect that is applied to imitate the effects of age. Again, true for all kinds of materials and artifacts.

To the extent that antiquing is done with the sole intent of creating a pleasing appearance and with no regard to the effects aging would actually engender, it fails its implied intent. Whether it succeeds as a pleasing affect, is a matter of opinion and what are fundamentally ephemeral fashions impulses.

The issue of polish has been raised. All polishes (except neutral) have dye in them. To the extent that those dyes are not the same colour as the underlying leather, colour changes are being applied to the shoe rather than being acquired.

Follow the logic...it is undoubtedly true that if you polish a shoe with a neutral cream for years and years (and never clean it) a certain amount of dust , grime, and micro-fine debris will be picked up and accumulate in corners and crevasses.This is part and parcel of patina. Does it look old and like it was an antique? Surely it does, but only as a result of natural processes, not artifice.

If you start with a tan shoe and you polish it with a slightly darker cream/wax for years, that dye is going to alter the colour of the leather. Is it due to natural processes or artifice? Surely logic dictates that the use of a material that is intended to add colour means that it is artifice.

Now take it to its logical extreme...if you start with a green shoe and polish it with red cream, you may get some startling effects but no one could rationally say that they were the result of aging. I don't think anyone could reasonably suggest that this was an acquired patina, either.

So what is it? It can be perversely called "antiquing" but only if you think that a green shoe with red toes looks old.

And the distinction between using a red cream on a green shoe as opposed to using a medium brown polish on a tan shoe is a distinction without meaning.

Shoe painting, tie-dyeing....either/or comes closest to an accurate description in my book as any.

Again, whether these affects/effects are pleasing or in vogue is neither here nor there.

And not really an issue in my comments.
post #17777 of 19098
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schweino View Post

I was happy to have found a Cheaney sample boot in a museum calf like color on eBay but received them like this:





Teared leather and large cracks. What can cause this? Dried out leather?

the only thing for sure is that you can return the shoe and contact for  a refund via seller or paypal  cause in the auction there is no reference for the defect and the shoes are mentioned as new!!

 

for me they look more like a shop window sample exposed to direct sunlight for over a season and not as a floor model!! someone asked to try it and as it is shown on the picture the dried leather teared at the stretch point after that they put it on ebay for obvious reason!!

post #17778 of 19098
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerP View Post
 

 

Congrats on the shoes - and good of you to share them here and on display in the shop window.  I certainly find the end result to be both beautiful and distinctive and see no need to describe it as "fake".  We all have our personal aesthetic preferences, of course, but certainly there is no pretense as to the fact that this was a deliberate process undertaken to achieve a specific aesthetic result.  I am interested in your earlier comment about the process being carefully undertaken so as not to weaken the shoe - can you explain what some of the pitfalls are and how they are avoided?

 

As with Malford, I have also experienced a darkening of the toe on older shoes with the passage of time.  I attribute this to the cumulative effect of more frequently applying polish to the most scuffed area of the shoe.  I had never regarded polishing as an "unnatural" process within the context of proper shoe care, so I am not sure that I embrace the consequent darkening as being an unnatural effect.

 

Then again, I have seem some battered, scuffed and poorly cared-for shoes lauded for their "natural patina" and have simply smiled quietly to myself.

 

RogerP

 

You're right about 'no pretense' and we could argue that the process is analogous to the 'painting' that DWFII has referred to before, except of course that we are 'taking away' not 'adding'. The materials that we use to achieve the effect could, if over used, damage the leather quite seriously. Fortunately, should this happen, the results are immediately obvious, one of many reasons why we are very careful and why the process can take some time. FWIW we are currently advising that it can take up to four weeks from order before the fading is complete to the standard we expect.

 

Best,

 

Foster & Son

post #17779 of 19098
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

Patina is something that is acquired through natural processes such as use, aging, and yes, polishing, although there's a logical caveat implied by that. This is as true for leather as it is for wood, silver, or stone.

Antiquing (as a verb) is a visual affect that is applied to imitate the effects of age. Again, true for all kinds of materials and artifacts.

To the extent that antiquing is done with the sole intent of creating a pleasing appearance and with no regard to the effects aging would actually engender, it fails its implied intent. Whether it succeeds as a pleasing affect, is a matter of opinion and what are fundamentally ephemeral fashions impulses.

The issue of polish has been raised. All polishes (except neutral) have dye in them. To the extent that those dyes are not the same colour as the underlying leather, colour changes are being applied to the shoe rather than being acquired.

Follow the logic...it is undoubtedly true that if you polish a shoe with a neutral cream for years and years (and never clean it) a certain amount of dust , grime, and micro-fine debris will be picked up and accumulate in corners and crevasses.This is part and parcel of patina. Does it look old and like it was an antique? Surely it does, but only as a result of natural processes, not artifice.

If you start with a tan shoe and you polish it with a slightly darker cream/wax for years, that dye is going to alter the colour of the leather. Is it due to natural processes or artifice? Surely logic dictates that the use of a material that is intended to add colour means that it is artifice.

Now take it to its logical extreme...if you start with a green shoe and polish it with red cream, you may get some startling effects but no one could rationally say that they were the result of aging. I don't think anyone could reasonably suggest that this was an acquired patina, either.

So what is it? It can be perversely called "antiquing" but only if you think that a green shoe with red toes looks old.

And the distinction between using a red cream on a green shoe as opposed to using a medium brown polish on a tan shoe is a distinction without meaning.

Shoe painting, tie-dyeing....either/or comes closest to an accurate description in my book as any.

Again, whether these affects/effects are pleasing or in vogue is neither here nor there.

And not really an issue in my comments.

 

Agreed,and whether our fading succeeds in its intent 'to imitate the effects of age' is a matter of opinion. We think it does, others may not. Foster & Son

post #17780 of 19098
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerP View Post

We don't see a lot of Anthony Cleverley here on the forum. My contribution:

Hosting provided by FotoTime
it perfect look.
post #17781 of 19098
Quote:
Originally Posted by FosterandSon View Post
 

 

RogerP

 

You're right about 'no pretense' and we could argue that the process is analogous to the 'painting' that DWFII has referred to before, except of course that we are 'taking away' not 'adding'. The materials that we use to achieve the effect could, if over used, damage the leather quite seriously. Fortunately, should this happen, the results are immediately obvious, one of many reasons why we are very careful and why the process can take some time. FWIW we are currently advising that it can take up to four weeks from order before the fading is complete to the standard we expect.

 

Best,

 

Foster & Son

 

Thanks for the explanation.  I'll look forward to seeing more examples down the road.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Son Of Saphir View Post


it perfect look.

 

Cheers my man.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FosterandSon View Post
 

 

Agreed,and whether our fading succeeds in its intent 'to imitate the effects of age' is a matter of opinion. We think it does, others may not. Foster & Son

 

Can't please everyone, that's for sure.  Some will always seek to elevate their personal preferences to rules of general application, but I have no doubt that your customers who have been requesting this service are well pleased, as I know I would be.

post #17782 of 19098
I much prefer acquire patina, which is more of a reduction process instead of applied addition.

Different strokes for different folkes.
post #17783 of 19098
Quote:
Originally Posted by Son Of Saphir View Post


it perfect look.

 

You're alive!

 

That pleases me.

post #17784 of 19098
Schweino, the seller shouldn't have listed these on eBay at all. You should get a full refund through Paypal's buyer protection.
post #17785 of 19098
Quote:
Originally Posted by Son Of Saphir View Post

it perfect look.

I miss Hoo-man.
post #17786 of 19098
Quote:
Originally Posted by sstomcat View Post

I miss Hoo-man.

lol8[1].gif
post #17787 of 19098
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

I much prefer acquire patina, which is more of a reduction process instead of applied addition.

Different strokes for different folkes.

 

chogall, we couldn't agree more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerP View Post
 

 

Thanks for the explanation.  I'll look forward to seeing more examples down the road.

 

 

Cheers my man.

 

 

Can't please everyone, that's for sure.  Some will always seek to elevate their personal preferences to rules of general application, but I have no doubt that your customers who have been requesting this service are well pleased, as I know I would be.

 

RogerP, we absolutely agree but, as chogall said, each to their own.

 

Foster & Son

post #17788 of 19098
Alfred Sargent Wilson

cross post from the black cap toe oxford thread.





post #17789 of 19098

 

My collection so far. Down the stairs: Alfred Sargent Holmes 2, Crockett and Jones Tetbury, R.M. Williams craftsman, Loake Burford 2, R.M. William Jodhpur.

The rest: R.m. William Kangaroo Comfort Craftsman, Jeffery West Gibson, Redwing chelsea.

Hopefully i'll expand my collection to Carmina, Edward Green and  John lobb in the future.

post #17790 of 19098
Isn't it annoying when the top pair falls off and takes every other pair with it downslope?
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