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Shoe Damage Report & Shoe P0rn Central - Part II - Page 1079

post #16171 of 19107

Always have good things to say about The Watch Appreciation Thread. :)

 

 

DWF, might I put you on the spot here?  As a craftsmen of great experience, what would you consider "fine" stitching, for practical purposes?

post #16172 of 19107
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

Isshy,

I didn't mean to diss your collection and to the extent that it came off that way, I apologize. From what I've seen, most of your collection is manufactured work. And while very good, probably you have to venture into "best of class" bespoke work to really get your socks knocked off.

Additionally...and something you alluded to...my historian friend will tell you that especially as you go back in time what we see in vintage or antique shoes tends to be stuff that wasn't sold or didn't fit or wasn't made quite right. The shoes or boots that no one wore or could wear, in other words--it's all that survives because the really great stuff got worn to the point that it was thrown away.

As for the quality of the leather, your cobbler friend has it right in every respect. All those issues were at the back of my mind when I posted my remarks about "corn-fed" and "unstressed environments" but just never made it to the keyboard. Glad you passed that on...it's critical to understanding leather quality.

No apologies necessary from you, my friend. You, of course, are 100% correct in your assessment. Although I have seen a few pairs that were very early 1900's and bespoke, I did not purchase them, and they elude my collection at the moment. Either waaaay too small or unwearable from age. The work is stunning. I love your stories about the 64 SPI and the challenges involved in even the possibility of making that a reality. Such great stuff.

By the way, I dream one day of getting on that waiting list of yours and commissioning a beautifully made and period-correct 1920's/ 1930's-style Oxford Spade! Gotta get those kids some college scholarships first, but I am SURE those shoes would be a true jewel in my collection.
post #16173 of 19107
TWAT works in American slang just as well as British slang

I also enjoy SCAT (Saint Crispin's Appreciation Thread) shog[1].gif
post #16174 of 19107
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimo View Post

Always have good things to say about The Watch Appreciation Thread. smile.gif


DWF, might I put you on the spot here?  As a craftsmen of great experience, what would you consider "fine" stitching, for practical purposes?

Heh heh... What I consider "fine" is, by necessity, somewhat at odds with what I consider doable. I'd like to think that on a pair of kangaroo shoes I could reasonably do 16-20spi without weakening the leather.

One thing to remember is that the lining factors in too. If the stitching is 18spi on kangaroo quarters, it's also 18spi on soft, less dense, calf quarter-liners.

On outsoles/welt, I think 12 -16 might be doable but I'll settle for 10-12...and that's probably 25 percent finer than anything being done commercially.

I think fine stitching is a hallmark of a fine shoe...for all the reasons we've talked about--it is indicative of workmanship as well as leather quality. I don't care for the Austro-Hungarian look for that very reason, even though I know that it is done deliberately and intended to present a very casual, rough-and-ready appearance...almost "folk" or "tramp art" in nature. To my eyes it just looks crude.

But that's just personal opinion and if we were all alike...most people here would be expendable. crackup[1].gif
post #16175 of 19107
To add to the shoe leather discussion, I just took a couple of quick pics of a 1901 issue of the Shoe & Leather Gazette. The first pic is of a standard section of this publication, pages and pages of a particular City's (this time, Saint Louis, MO) various leather manufacturers and dealers, as well as many of their offerings. In different sections of the publication there are discussions of different stock and comparing them to previous years + a "future's outlook". At this time, every shoemaker subscribed to many of these publications so he could keep abreast of the various materials that were available. This ranged from soles, insoles, leather/ rubber heels, even discussions of various nail, tool & metal eyelet manufacturers.

There were a lot of great shoemakers and the competition was FIERCE. The consumer was much more knowledgeable about what went into making a fine pair of shoes, and makers were sure to let their customers know the types of leathers they used (as well as many other factors) in order to entice them to make the investment. Based on the many ads, articles and newspapers I have seen, it seems almost like the AVERAGE US quality shoe buyer was as knowledgeable as the upper echelon of SF shoe-junkies!

The second pic is of a pretty cool ad for "Trostel's Phoenix Kid" leather. I love it.

vintageshoeleather.jpg

vintageshoeleather2.jpg
post #16176 of 19107
So what is the deal with the decline of great leathers? Is it the tanneries, or is it a product of how cattle is raised and slaughtered? Will be get to the point where we need to search for organic grass fed shoes?
post #16177 of 19107
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

So what is the deal with the decline of great leathers? Is it the tanneries, or is it a product of how cattle is raised and slaughtered? Will be get to the point where we need to search for organic grass fed shoes?

DWFII did answer that just a few posts ago.
post #16178 of 19107
I should go read that.
post #16179 of 19107
Ok, I want to start a coalition that massages cattle on a weekly basis with warm Lexol and essential oils to ensure great footwear.
post #16180 of 19107
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

I should go read that.

Or this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by isshinryu101 View Post

About leather quality, my 94 year old cobbler has told me that he believes that the "intended use" of today's cattle is a major factor. Today, cattle are raised for food and breeding purposes first, and for the most part, the hides are almost an afterthought. All the steroids and supplements added to their diets may be good for meat, but not so for the leather. He says that when he was still a boy, there were cattle that were bred and raised for the quality of leather they could produce.
post #16181 of 19107
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

But that's just personal opinion and if we were all alike...most people here would be expendable. crackup[1].gif

 

Being a man, I find a surprising variety of forms attractive.  But I understand you entirely. :)

post #16182 of 19107
ravello wt
argyles otc

post #16183 of 19107
This thread is where it's at. Over the years I have learned so much from Isshi, bengal-stripe and D.W. that I wish SF would have actual rewards for the most helpful members. I'd rather read the most inane posts from these three than go through the mindless treacle that oozes on most (insert brand) appreciation threads. I visit Styleforum in order to learn and share, not for the snark or one-upmanship of conspicuous instakops. There are shoes and there are Footwear, just as there is helping guys out and merely typing for egos and bragging rights.
post #16184 of 19107

i know this is off topic but you are the most 'talkative Finnish' man i have ever 'met'.

 

By this I mean I would never thought i would  ever 'hear' a sentence like "the mindless treacle that oozes on most (insert brand) appreciation threads. I visit Styleforum in order to learn and share, not for the snark or one-upmanship of conspicuous instakops. There are shoes and there are Footwear, just as there is helping guys out and merely typing for egos and bragging rights." from a Finn

 

all male Finns i have ever met were extremely laconic. Finnish women do talk a lot more

post #16185 of 19107
Quote:
Originally Posted by isshinryu101 View Post



About leather quality, my 94 year old cobbler has told me that he believes that the "intended use" of today's cattle is a major factor. Today, cattle are raised for food and breeding purposes first, and for the most part, the hides are almost an afterthought. All the steroids and supplements added to their diets may be good for meat, but not so for the leather. He says that when he was still a boy, there were cattle that were bred and raised for the quality of leather they could produce.

What are your thoughts on this?

Consider this: a cow - a natural ruminant - that feeds on what it was born to - grass - will grow to slaughter weight in approximately five years time.

A factory grain-fed, steroid/antibiotic-laden cow can reach slaughter weight in as little as 16 months.

It's like comparing an athlete to the fat kid sitting on the bleachers eating ice-cream who has trouble breathing walking up one flight of stairs. Whose skin do you think is more pliable, tougher and, well, better?

Also, these new methods of cattle raising are viciously detrimental to the quality of the meat: read up on the difference between grass-fed and finished beef vs. CAFO beef. You'll take an interest in what you decide to cook for dinner.
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