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Shoe Damage Report & Shoe P0rn Central - Part II - Page 987

post #14791 of 19137
Quote:
Originally Posted by isshinryu101 View Post

What? Based on what? It's impossible to label a maker that has shoes from CG blake all the way to hand-welted masterpieces. Regardless, even at the lowest levels, that is a ridiculous amount of cracking. Even AE's shouldn't suffer that way. Using shoe trees alone should prevent that, much less if you polish and condition.

Nevertheless cracking like this has been a problem for centuries. Charles' shoe are indicative that even high end bespoke will crack.

There used to be a common perception that floor level urinals were the cause of such cracking--the uric acid being the culprit. But raising urinals hasn't seemed to make a difference.

I suspect that certain leathers are more prone to cracking than others, that's all. And it doesn't have anything to do with the quality except that naturally, lower end leathers may have residual chemicals that were not completely or properly flushed and which accelerate the process.

I also suspect that veg tanned leathers...while much preferred and admired by shoemakers and customers alike...can be more vulnerable simply because veg tans tend to be drier leathers and natural compounds such as tannic acid may be harder to flush or neutralize than chromium salts.

And contemporary tannages are probably at increased risk relative to older, perhaps vintage leathers/shoes.

Some of this is admittedly speculation...I'm not a leather chemist...but if experience is of any value whatsoever, I suspect the answer (if a single answer is ever to be found) will be somewhat close.

--
Edited by DWFII - 12/17/12 at 10:26am
post #14792 of 19137
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

Nevertheless cracking like this has been a problem for centuries. Charles' shoe are indicative that even high end bespoke will crack.
There used to be a common perception that floor level urinals were the cause of such cracking--the uric acid being the culprit. But raising urinals hasn't seemed to make a difference.
I suspect that certain leathers are more prone to cracking than others, that's all. And it doesn't have anything to do with the quality except that naturally, lower end leathers may have residual chemicals that were not flushed and which accelerate the process.
I also suspect that veg tanned leathers...while much preferred and admired by shoemakers and customers alike...can be more vulnerable simple because veg tans tend to be drier leathers and natural compounds such as tannic acid may be harder to flush or neutralize than chromium salts.
And contemporary tannages are probably at increased risk relative to older, perhaps vintage leathers/shoes.
Some of this is admittedly speculation...I'm not a leather chemist...but if experience is of any value whatsoever, I suspect the answer (if a single answer is ever to be found) will be somewhat close.

I agree. However, I have a very hard time believing there isn't an issue with less than perfect shoe-carer taking place here.
post #14793 of 19137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crat View Post

Based on the fact that I agree that this amount of cracking shouldn't occur with proper treatment but it did. I know others who share my opinion and have had similar experiences.
Go crazy all you want with high-end, hand-welted constructions methods, I'm not impressed by Santoni's leather quality.

This is based on which models? Different leather on different models. The Goodyear and up models have excellent leather, and the Ltd Editions' leather is very, very nice.

I'm sure others hate Santoni leather, but yours is the 1st pair I've seen posted here that are cracked. Most of the cracked models were UK Lobbs & EG (which trades durability for xtra soft leather).
post #14794 of 19137
Thats odd, in my experience Green uses fairly 'hard' leather with quite a firm structure which is a result of the use of relatively young calfskins. Due to this they need a little longer to break in but in return offer higher durability. It would seem that our experiences differ a lot.

DWFII, I agree with you that certain leathers are more prone to cracking than others. I'm no leather chemist either; just posting my observations.
For example, from what I've seen these kind of cracks don't seem to occur in cordovan. My guess is that is also has something to do with the fact that with cordovan the inside of the hide (the suede side) is situated on the outside of the shoe. Therefore the small but deep wrinkles don't form which eventually tear causing cracks.
Edited by Crat - 12/17/12 at 12:44pm
post #14795 of 19137
Quote:
Originally Posted by isshinryu101 View Post

I agree. However, I have a very hard time believing there isn't an issue with less than perfect shoe-carer taking place here.

Actually, I put a fair effort into caring for my shoes, so there.


Been looking for an excuse to post that one for ages satisfied.gif
Edited by Crat - 12/17/12 at 12:45pm
post #14796 of 19137
This deserves a repost, who is the maker?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sterling Gillette View Post

Cross posted from the other shoe porn thread: Bespoke three-eyelet derbies in black calf.







post #14797 of 19137
Something a little different...



post #14798 of 19137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crat View Post

...these kind of cracks don't seem to occur in cordovan. My guess is that is also has something to do with the fact that with cordovan the inside of the hide (the suede side) is situated on the outside of the shoe. Therefore the small but deep wrinkles don't form which eventually tear causing cracks.

Actually cordovan isn't a "hide"...might not even be "leather" in the sense that we ordinarily use the term. It is not the skin of the animal but a muscle sheath that lies under the skin. I suspect that fact alone has as much to do with why cordovan may or may not crack as anything else.
post #14799 of 19137
But it is the 'flesh' side on the outside of the shoe isn't it?

-edit
also, you live and learn : )
Edited by Crat - 12/18/12 at 6:10am
post #14800 of 19137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crat View Post

But it is the 'flesh' side on the outside of the shoe isn't it?
-edit
also, you live and learn : )

First of all, given the fact that the cordovan isn't the hide at all, distinguishing between the 'flesh' side and the 'grain' side is a bit nonsensical. In a leather hide, the flesh side is that which is toward the animal, while the grain side is where the hair follicles are and the side of the hide that is 'out.' The cordovan fiber is, as DW stated, a muscle sheath, so both sides abut other types of flesh, neither is on the outside of the animal.

I'm not sure about which side of the cordovan 'sheath' is finished after the tanning process, but I wouldn't cite that as the likely reason for absence of cracking. My guess is that it is a combination of the inherent nature of the fibers comprising the leather and the tannage used, which is a very fatty tannage (hence the very limited need for ongoing moisturizing of the cordovan as compared to regular leather).
post #14801 of 19137
Quote:
Originally Posted by MalfordOfLondon View Post

Something a little different...



Where did you get these made?  I've been seriously looking into stingray lately and haven't found someone to do it just right.

post #14802 of 19137

AWESOME

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MalfordOfLondon View Post

Something a little different... 


post #14803 of 19137
Personally, I'm not a fan of cordovan but that is neither here nor there. The thing I would note is that the "finish" on cordovan is essentially a paint job--even if you do add some sort of moisturizer/conditioner, it doesn't penetrate that finish much, if at all. It just sits there...I'm sure we've all seen that.

I have always suspected that one of the things that causes cracking is the very conditioners/waxes that we use on shoes. Some are heavy in residual hard fats or waxes and when left on the shoe tend to collect "dust". Dust is almost always comprised of microscopically fine particles of abrasive materials such as glass, rock, etc.. Again these waxes tend to hold these particles down in the creases where they rub against the fibers of the leather. And dust also draws out and absorbs any conditioners that are in the leather--drying it and making it more vulnerable.

Combine that with the corrosive effects of urban environments which tend to have higher concentrations of ambient and atmospheric sulfuric acid. The Pyramids and Michelangelo's David are at risk...how can we expect shoes to fare any better?

In passing, I would observe that I have seen cordovan shoes that were cracked out. So it happens. And suede or flesh out shoes do crack as well. Although the absence of waxes...as well as the difficulty of seeing cracks in a heavily textured surface...play ar part in convincing us that suede is somehow more durable.
post #14804 of 19137
These should put the cat among the pigeons...





Quote:
Originally Posted by Jhors2 View Post


Where did you get these made?  I've been seriously looking into stingray lately and haven't found someone to do it just right.

PM'd
post #14805 of 19137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jhors2 View Post


Where did you get these made?  I've been seriously looking into stingray lately and haven't found someone to do it just right.
Avi Rossini.

Malford, you have more?
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