Shoe Damage Report & Shoe P0rn Central - Part II - Page 954

I've wondered about this as well.

I've checked on my Vass with a beveled waist and it looks the same. If I pull at the waist I can just see stitching going through the upper. I wondered if it means the welt has is 180 degrees and the stitching is just from upper to inseam like would be done at the heel.

EDIT: as per Bengal-stripe's response
But I had a look at Carreducker's blog and it looks like the welt continues to 270 degrees, but becomes narrowed and the stitches hidden at the waist.

A Spade sole is slightly different from what I've read.
The welt still runs 270 degrees but it is cut tight and is essentially non functional beyond 180 degrees - there's no stitching from welt to sole at this point. It's justs glued. You can see in the picture that the welt is still there but it's cut so close that you wouldn't be able to stitch it through to the outsole.


Structurally it's not going to affect the shoe because the sole is held in place at the heel and the front of the shoe. Also, on many shoes the waist would be pegged.


Norvegese and Bentivegna often have another midsole in there.
Edited by hendrix - 11/1/12 at 7:47pm

The classic English bevelled waist on a handmade shoe utilizes a ‘blind welt’ in the waist section. The welt goes from (heel) ‘breast to breast’, but the welt in the waist section is further off the edge, cut narrower and, I believe, also thinned out in the waist section (not 100% sure about that).

Welt prepared for a bevelled waist.

When it comes to the stitching (or more correct ‘sewing), it is wider in the waist section (about 4/inch) than the actual sole (about 10/inch). It is also pulled very tight and boned down to sink into the leather.


I have no actual photograph that shows the stitches within the waist, but they are present. Then the stitch pattern changes for the actual sole from ‘ball to ball’, until the shoemaker has come to the other side, where he utilizes again the sewing.

Once the shoe gets finished, the waist section is cut very narrow, pressed-in (hiding the welt) and shaped. In a skilfully made bevelled waist, you will neither see any stitches, nor a gap. The sole closes very tightly to the shoe, but nevertheless the connection does not rely on glue or on wooden pegs.

Thanks for the clarification

I've just read it again and it seems that the Carreducker explanation is talking specifically about a Spade sole. I should have clarified.

As you can see at the welt in the waist of the spade-soled shoe, it's too narrow for any welt-to-outsole stitching to occur. This wouldn't be the case with a normal beveled welt.

With my bentivegna constructed shoes, the welt runs 360 degrees and is stitched to the midsole. Following that the midsole is stitched to an outsole but only 180 degrees. I'm pretty sure that the waist from the midsole to the outsole is only glued, and I can see a very small degree of separation in this area.

It hasn't compromised the shoe at all because it's only for the midsole, but it does show why stitching is preferential to glue.

In cowboy boots the welt only runs 180 degrees and I'm pretty sure that the pegging is what maintains the integrity of the waist.

No, unless Carreducker is doing something idiosyncratic, a spade sole would still be handled the way Bengal describes. A very narrow waist can be accomplished simply by cutting the feather/outside channel deeper in towards the middle of the insole.

Let's say that around the forepart the "feather" is cut 4mm inward from the edge of the insole, in the waist the feather might be cut 6 or even as much as 10mm in from the edge of the insole. That, combined with a narrowing and a thinning of the welt through the waist, leaves both the entire width of the welt and the stitches well under the edge of the insole. The welt would not be visible in some cases.

Some of the photos of Anthony Delos' work show the waist being cut exactly in this way.

Since the outsole channel is cut into the edge of the outsole nearly horizontally the channel in the waist becomes literally invisible.

And yes you're correct, some...most high end bespoke...cowboy boots are welted waist to waist (180 degrees) and then the waist itself is pegged.

bengal, you never stop amazing me. You really ought to write a book in the style of Vass, just with more technical porn for us shoe nerds.

Are there any advantages in a very tight waist other than the obviously cleaner look?

Cross post from Cliff Roberts thread.

Ah, cool thanks.

(DW or B-S can correct me here) I think I read somewhere in the Carreducker blog that if anything it's not as structurally secure as a square waist. I also think I read somewhere that the stitches are spaced slightly wider at the waist.

Shoes&Shirts?

first pair of crispins - thx to the guys at the armoury!

 

 

Great pair, looking for detailed pics.

C&J and AS

 

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Nice pictures of the thin welt.  Doesn't look like something that my neighborhood cobblers can properly resole...

nice