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Unattractiveness and the discussion of style - Page 8

post #106 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by marc237
....I would be far less concerned with having others judge physical appearance and would more concerned with judgments as to the appearance one's choice of words and approach to communication creates. Confidence, tact, and good humor can make even those who are not physically fortunate desirable to be with, while abrasive personalities can make physically attractive individuals very lonely indeed.

IMO this is the most perceptive writing in this entire thread. I've met more than a few women who were nothing special to look at, but were delightful company because of their humor, intelligence, etc. These are people I find truly attractive. Conversely, I've met many a beautiful witch with a truly repulsive personality.

So, to address the OP, there's a lot more to attractiveness than visual features or fine dress. Since first impressions are primarily visual, I dress to optimize my physical assets so I have the chance to bring the personality into play with a positive bias in place. Although few forum members post pictures and even fewer wish to give up total anonymity by including their faces in pictures, I would guess our aggregate physical attractiveness is representative of the larger society. As another poster suggested, our concern with appearance may lead us to be more physically fit than the average.
post #107 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by marc237
Interesting questions.

First, I do not think the posting in the photos are representative of the events. There are certainly people who I have met only by photo, but not in person and vice-versa. However, I think there is a problem comparing between an array of digitial static photos and in person experiences. IMHO, attractiveness is often enhanced, or sometimes not, by the totality of the in-person experience.

Yes. That's called dynamic attractiveness.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger
why would anyone need to judge thier own attractiveness?

Probably the main reason is to know one's own mate value, to use a crude term. The man who spends his time pursuing women he cannot obtain is a sad stock character.
post #108 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabienne
Interesting, thank you for posting. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that being extremely attractive would actually prove to make life harder for a person in the business world. Thoughts?

For women, there is strong evidence of that. For men, any evidence of that is purely anecdotal. Many successful businessmen are highly attractive. Or were when they started becoming powerful. Dressing beautifully might have that kind of downside, but that is a different subject.
post #109 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensimageconsultant
Probably the main reason is to know one's own mate value, to use a crude term. The man who spends his time pursuing women he cannot obtain is a sad stock character.

Sorry, but disagree. For men, the correlation of classic physical attractiveness (being handsome) of the male and ability to attract a stunning female is not all that strong. In real life, very attractive women often mate with males who are physically far less attractive for a wide variety of reasons -- personality, power, humor, wealth, etc.
post #110 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by marc237
....I would be far less concerned with having others judge physical appearance and would more concerned with judgments as to the appearance one's choice of words and approach to communication creates. Confidence, tact, and good humor can make even those who are not physically fortunate desirable to be with, while abrasive personalities can make physically attractive individuals very lonely indeed.

The two are not completely unrelated. It's possible (and I don't have any studies to confirm this on hand) that people who are more physically attractive are also more confident when communicating with others because they are not self-conscious about their physical appearance and are therefore more open to meeting other people and talking to them without reservations caused by a negative self-image.
post #111 of 170
There's a little published evidence of the static attractiveness-confidence connection.

While appearance might not be the most important charactertistic on which a man is evaluated in mating, it is important, especially in today's world. Ugly man with beautiful woman is not common. If it seems common, the memorability factor might be the main reason.
post #112 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensimageconsultant
For women, there is strong evidence of that. For men, any evidence of that is purely anecdotal. Many successful businessmen are highly attractive. Or were when they started becoming powerful. Dressing beautifully might have that kind of downside, but that is a different subject.


not to be indelicate, but I think that any woman who is reasonably attractive and reasonably young and is in a situation to be in a "masculine" part of the business world has a huge jump in "attractiveness". I once worked with a young woman who was cute, but far from gorgeous. we were at a trade show together, once, and she told me that several times in the night men (basically customers of hers) had knocked on the door of her room to suggest a little sex. during the day, men flirted with her constantly.

another woman I know, started out in the business world at age 38 - also cute, but not gorgeous by any means. she was treated like a movie star, just because pretty much whereever she went she was the only woman.
post #113 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by globetrotter
not to be indelicate, but I think that any woman who is reasonably attractive and reasonably young and is in a situation to be in a "masculine" part of the business world has a huge jump in "attractiveness". I once worked with a young woman who was cute, but far from gorgeous. we were at a trade show together, once, and she told me that several times in the night men (basically customers of hers) had knocked on the door of her room to suggest a little sex. during the day, men flirted with her constantly.

another woman I know, started out in the business world at age 38 - also cute, but not gorgeous by any means. she was treated like a movie star, just because pretty much whereever she went she was the only woman.
To step this up another notch, you should see how flat-out ugly chicks get treated in a war zone. They're all loving the attention now but know that it is temporary.

Mic: are you suggesting that I limit myself to average chicks and below? No chance dude. The biological proclivity for women to mate with (as opposed to settle down with, marry) "attractive" men has much more to do with alphaness and attitude than it does with flat-out looks. The proclivity to settle down with established earners has even less to do with looks.

Tom
post #114 of 170
I have always worked out and had a good body. I also dress well. I also had a facial appearance that would rate a 2 or 3 on a scale of 10. With the help of an orthodontist and plastic surgeon I changed that 2 or 3 to a very solid 7.

I find that I can now easily connect with women who would not before have given me the time of day. It is possible to overcome an unattractive appearance, especially with money, but it is often difficult. The same applies to work environments and opportunities. It is possible to overcome a bad appearance through hard work and competence, but the course is often difficult.

I have known some very attractive men who were utterly stupid and inept. Interesting that these guys have no problem attracting beautiful women and are generally well liked and considered to be very capable until they prove otherwise. Men in the top 5% of the population in physical attractiveness live in a world that is a little different.
post #115 of 170
Willie, thanks for your honesty, and good first post. What I question though is whether the women who previously wouldn't have given you the time of day began talking to you because of your improved appearance, or the improved confidence insipired by your improved appearance.

That's one more reason I don't want to find out if I'm a hideous fool or not
post #116 of 170
Thread Starter 
I would like to thank the members that have posted in this thread so far; as I do realize the subject matter has the potential to expose one's vulnerabilities not only to others but even more precarious to one's self; and the act of self-exploration seems to have greater consequences the older you get. I have noticed that despite the number of replies that this topic has had a number of prominent forum members have been absent from participating; I think this speaks clearly about the sensitivity of the subject, which despite the bluntness of the original statement, has been discussed with great tact and empathy, perhaps because many of us are "in the same boat" when it comes to our self-perceptions.
post #117 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawyerdad
LOL, you must have missed that thread a while back discussing the head of A&F . . .

OMFG, that's one thread I haven't had occasion to miss since the Great Crash.
post #118 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger02

That's one more reason I don't want to find out if I'm a hideous fool or not

Well, we've seen your picture but we're not going to tell you if you are. You have weapons
post #119 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger02
Willie, thanks for your honesty, and good first post. What I question though is whether the women who previously wouldn't have given you the time of day began talking to you because of your improved appearance, or the improved confidence insipired by your improved appearance.

That's one more reason I don't want to find out if I'm a hideous fool or not

Good point about self perception. Works both ways really. I constantly see relatively unattractive older men hitting on much younger and more attractive women. These foolish men actually believe they have a chance and must endure predictably brutal rejections. So many 50 year old men look in the mirror and see a 25 year old stud.

It is not easy for most unattractive men to face the reality of their physical appearance, just not something any of us want to deal with. Before I changed my appearance I actually overrated my appearance. For this reason I felt it was reasonable to try for attractive women and then try to figure out why I was striking out. I think that my self image is much more realistic now that I do not have as much to hide from myself.

Confidence is very important, but only if it is grounded in reality.
post #120 of 170
I think we all know the kind of 'attractive' woman who is only attracted to 'model-handsome' men. They're the kind of women you want to sleep with and brag to your friends about, but could never get serious about anyway. So who the hell cares? And I'm rather conventionally attractive, so no dime-store psychoanalysis, thank you.
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