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official 2010 world cup thread - Page 4

post #46 of 4057
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jokerman View Post
Allez Les Bleus!

I still don't understand this team. Looking at the roster, they're pretty damned good - Gallas, Evra, Sagna, Ribery, Abidal, Malouda, Diaby, Anelka, Henry. No idea why they ended up sneaking into the World Cup.

If this team improves in the next international competition because of the new manager, we'll all know why.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanicus View Post
If Rooney gets on a roll and if they can avoid penalties, England will have their chance. Never underestimate Germany.

You mean red cards? I don't know..Rio Ferdinand is the captain.
post #47 of 4057
Argentina are terrible, they'll definitely be challenged in the first round. Messi is overrated. The French are old and lack talent in central midfield -- Diaby? Toulalan? Seriously...? Their defence is also makeshift and probably won't hold. I could see them not getting thorough to the second round just like in Euro 2008. England are constantly overrated, the only thing going for them is that Capello is a tough sonuvabitch and will demand a lot from them. Group D stands for "Death" and should be the most interesting to watch. Italy will walk over the rest of the competition in the first round, as will Spain.
post #48 of 4057
Spain have the best talent by far. The team is so balanced, having world class players at every position bar left back and maybe right back. Spain Brazil and then England in that order.
post #49 of 4057
Quote:
Originally Posted by greekonomist View Post
+1 Completely bereft of ideas going forward, except for one or two surprisingly fluid attacks.
Agreed--I'm always shocked when they actually put a combination of passes together. Really an unexpected surprise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartmann View Post
Argentina are terrible, they'll definitely be challenged in the first round. Messi is overrated.
I've been thinking about this a lot. Maybe people are going nuts after seeing the Forward list (Higuain, Messi, Tevez, Milito) but only two (maybe 3) of those guys will see the pitch at the same time. I'll take 4-5 teams before Argentina at this point.
post #50 of 4057
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartmann View Post
Messi is overrated.

post #51 of 4057
Quote:
Originally Posted by greekonomist View Post
getting closer...

i've been on the USA bandwagon whenever i see them on tv! go erik harkes and jozi adu! go team usa score many home runs and touchdowns from corner kicks!

seriously though... damn i hope USA gets some crowd support. its the one thing the national team never gets (even for the 94' cup).

also i kinda wish they kept the white (with horizontal pin stripes) and plain grey alternate uniforms... they were plain (and arguably ugly) but still they looked to be almost permanent and i got used to them.

the armpit sash stripe is well... ok.. if they win with that uniform though... then let that be the national team motif forever so everyone will know its team USA playing.
post #52 of 4057
Please please please don't sleep on the Dutch.
post #53 of 4057
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartmann View Post

Argentina are terrible, they'll definitely be challenged in the first round. Messi is overrated.

Milito, Tevez and Messi up front is not what I would call terrible. Maradona has called up a lot of unknowns for the midfield but he's still bringing Mascherano and Veron. His central defense is not bad either with Samuel and DeMichelis both champions league finalsits.

Quote:
The French are old and lack talent in central midfield -- Diaby? Toulalan? Seriously...? Their defence is also makeshift and probably won't hold. I could see them not getting thorough to the second round just like in Euro 2008.

I think France has a pretty rock solid defense if you ask me. Evra and Sagna are the best left and right backs in the premier league. Sagna struggles a bit up the pitch but his defending is superb. Gallas and Squillaci are not Blanc or Desailly but they are solid players. Domenech is also bringing with him a few polyfunctional defenders to adjust for tactics and injuries.

I'd be interested to see what type of formation they'll play since it seems that Lass Diarra's injury deprives them of a pure defensive midfielder. My guess is that Diaby, Gourcuff and Toulalan will play in a line of three. Toulalan will lie deep and spread the ball around while Gourcuff links the midfield to the forwards and Diaby plays more box to box like Vieira.

Quote:
England are constantly overrated, the only thing going for them is that Capello is a tough sonuvabitch and will demand a lot from them.

I think England crashes out in the first knock out round.
post #54 of 4057
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRINI View Post
Please please please don't sleep on the Dutch.

I had to UB that.
post #55 of 4057
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartmann View Post
The French are old and lack talent in central midfield -- Diaby? Toulalan? Seriously...? Their defence is also makeshift and probably won't hold. I could see them not getting thorough to the second round just like in Euro 2008.

I don't think they'll get into knockout either but the names are impressive for a team that is supposed to suck - maybe I should have looked at it half empty and say they're underachievers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRINI View Post
Please please please don't sleep on the Dutch.

I have to say Van Persie is an impressive striker. Good for him to come back from the injury - lord knows his club missed him.
post #56 of 4057
Quote:
Originally Posted by paraiso View Post
Milito, Tevez and Messi up front is not what I would call terrible. Maradona has called up a lot of unknowns for the midfield but he's still bringing Mascherano and Veron. His central defense is not bad either with Samuel and DeMichelis both champions league finalsits.


Like someone else said, they can't all play at once. Maradona will likely play a standard 4-4-2. So you get the same issue of having to bench someone, likely to be Tevez and Milito, with Messi and Higuain starting. Not a bad choice, but we'll see how it pans out.

Mascherano is not creative enough to pull the strings, Veron might be tho.

DeMichelis is a joke, I can't believe he's still playing top-flight football.

Quote:
I think France has a pretty rock solid defense if you ask me. Evra and Sagna are the best left and right backs in the premier league. Sagna struggles a bit up the pitch but his defending is superb. Gallas and Squillaci are not Blanc or Desailly but they are solid players. Domenech is also bringing with him a few polyfunctional defenders to adjust for tactics and injuries.

Evra is woefully slow on the backtrack and gets taken to task by any skilled winger, only managing to salvage the situation by committing horribly cynical fouls. Sagna is clueless going forward. They're two halves of the same coin, so put together they count as one world-class player.

Gallas is just old and knackered, I haven't seen Squillaci play recently.
post #57 of 4057
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyman View Post
Are you being serious? So Argentina's Messi isn't?. I agree with you about Ronaldo, although he's pretty to watch, and can hit a ball like nothing else he fails to perform in the big games. He did it time and again at United.
Rooney I have to say is one of the best players, his sheer power and speed is amazing. He can score goals with his left foot, right foot, head, from 30 yards or 6 yards. He is just quality. Although I have to say he sometimes fails to change a game and is therefore not THE best player in the world.

While it's fun to speculate on who has the best individual skills, it's important to remember that history shows that tactics usually prevail in the final rounds of the larger tournaments. So much of my critique of the various teams above is really a critique also of the tactical systems they're a part of. Argentina, for instance, don't really have a solid focus, and are still relying on players like Messi to bail them out. Contrast this with the Dunga regime, where there are not more prima-donnas and the formation and strategy has been a long time in the planning.

The way I see it, the first round is designed to just weed out teams that have neither talent nor strategy (the DPRKs of the world). The second/third rounds are less predictable, so teams with skill might find themselves up against well organized but unexciting opponents. These games also come down to some luck, since they're one-shot deals. The (semi)finals are where the consistency of all the previous rounds pays off. This is why you get Spain winning Euro 2008 with their devastating counterattacks, Greece winning 2004 with their 4-5-1 stacked defence, etc.
post #58 of 4057
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartmann View Post
While it's fun to speculate on who has the best individual skills, it's important to remember that history shows that tactics usually prevail in the final rounds of the larger tournaments. So much of my critique of the various teams above is really a critique also of the tactical systems they're a part of. Argentina, for instance, don't really have a solid focus, and are still relying on players like Messi to bail them out. Contrast this with the Dunga regime, where there are not more prima-donnas and the formation and strategy has been a long time in the planning.

The way I see it, the first round is designed to just weed out teams that have neither talent nor strategy (the DPRKs of the world). The second/third rounds are less predictable, so teams with skill might find themselves up against well organized but unexciting opponents. These games also come down to some luck, since they're one-shot deals. The (semi)finals are where the consistency of all the previous rounds pays off. This is why you get Spain winning Euro 2008 with their devastating counterattacks, Greece winning 2004 with their 4-5-1 stacked defence, etc.

Yeah definantly a good all round team work ethic, good discipline, and organisation are much more important than that one or two world class players. Probably the reason England never win. On paper they are surely one of the best teams in the world. Rooney, terry, Gerrard, Lampard, Cole. But they are not well organised and these outstanding club players look poor at national level.

Whereas a team like Germany whilst all good players and playing at the highest level of the game, do not have a team of football boot model superstars. Yet because they are well disciplined good in defence and have a good attacking component they are arguably one of the best teams in the world. Again part of the reason I think brazil didn't triumph in 2006 and aren't going to triumph this time is they are not disciplined at the back. They are a team of naturally attack minded footballers.

History has shown that a good goal keeper and defence is more likely to win than a team with two stunning strikers. The teams that usually win win 1-0, or 2-0. Of course there are exceptions in holland total football teams, and the likes of Chelsea or barcalona at club level who defend well but also in recent times have been exciting to watch and have won games 4/5/7-0.
post #59 of 4057
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartmann View Post
Messi is overrated.

Im glad someone else thinks this.
post #60 of 4057
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiophilia View Post

Yeah. Uhhhh, come again?
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