or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › The OCBD collar roll thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The OCBD collar roll thread - Page 26

post #376 of 426

The Miler BD.  Just saying.  Fabric looks more like a twill than an oxford.  

 

post #377 of 426
Proper cloth on the shirt matrix
collar points: 3.5"
Angle: 45°
Button width: 3.5"
Button depth: 1.5"
Birthing factor: 85%

Here is what it looks like on me
post #378 of 426

No, it's the Supima Cotton must-iron that preceded the revived unlined OCBD.

post #379 of 426
Quote:
Originally Posted by mossrockss View Post

Proper cloth on the shirt matrix
collar points: 3.5"
Angle: 45°
Button width: 3.5"
Button depth: 1.5"
Birthing factor: 85%

Here is what it looks like on me Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

This is the Ivy BD, yeah?  Something isn't right about the tie space.  Too much, I think.  Several of my BD do that unbalanced roll thing.  The right side looks fine, but the left doesn't roll enough near the button hole.  I wonder if collar band height is an important variable for the matrix.  Kamakura has a very high collar band.  I wonder how that contributes to the roll.   

post #380 of 426

This thread is THROUGH THE LOOKING GLASS. And, I like it :nodding:

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by TartanWarrior View Post

I used to be the Head Dress Shirt Buyer at Brooks Brothers and left to become the King of the Oxfords at Lands' End. I was the last person to know the secret to the famous Brooks Brothers roll to the Polo collar.
The British Marks & Spencer destroyed all those Brooks Brothers traditions. The Italian Luxotica group that now owns BB is doing a good job bringing those traditions back, but no correct roll to their button-down shirts.

Being in charge of woven shirts at Lands' End, our shirts always had a split yoke, locker loop, and a pretty good roll, but not the BB roll that F. Scott Fitzgerald and others waxed poetic about.

In my professional opinion, the Mercer shirts exhibit the best, classic roll. The Brooks Brothers shirts, despite the huge tradition and following, exhibit the worst roll to the collar!

How come the LE collar lengths are like 2" (Hyde park model)?

post #381 of 426
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billax View Post
 

No, it's the Supima Cotton must-iron that preceded the revived unlined OCBD.

Those are the ones that I have as well.  

post #382 of 426
The Hyde Park was the one Lands' End shirt that was trying to duplicate the Brooks Brothers #3 and #10 Oxford shirts. That's why the fabric is so heavy. The Brooks Brothers collar length was
2 and a half inches, if memory serves me right.

I left Lands' End in 1988. Since that time, they've been through many changes. Being owned by Sears for a while, etc. I couldn't tell you how they are designing their products now. I did order a white pinpoint Oxford button down from Lands' End recently for a wedding. No ware near the shirt
I built back when I helped start Lands'' End. Couldn't tell you much about them now.
post #383 of 426
Quote:
Originally Posted by TartanWarrior View Post

The Hyde Park was the one Lands' End shirt that was trying to duplicate the Brooks Brothers #3 and #10 Oxford shirts.

What's #3 and #10? I wasn't aware BB's oxfords are numbered.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TartanWarrior View Post

The British Marks & Spencer destroyed all those Brooks Brothers traditions. The Italian Luxotica group that now owns BB is doing a good job bringing those traditions back, but no correct roll to their button-down shirts.

I don't think Luxottica owns Brooks Brothers. AFAIK, Brooks is privately owned by Claudio del Vecchio, who's the son of Luxottica's founder. The relationship is just familial though; not business.
post #384 of 426
#3 was the blue, #10 was White, #7 was Yellow, #5 was Pink, #2 was Ecru. Back when I was there, you could see the suit measurements of all the US Presidents, including JFK and Abraham Lincoln.
Most of the military generals and admirals has their uniforms made by Brooks Brothers, including
General Ulysses S. Grant.

Ther used to be a suit factory and tie factory in Long Island City and our shirt factory was in Patterson, NJ. A second factory was added in Garland, NC to accommodate the poly/cotton shirts and Brooks Brothers Japan and the Japanese sizing. I don't think any of those factories are used any more.

The heavy we sight fabric of the Brooks Brothers Oxford was an exclusive 10s 2/ply fabric manufactured by J.P. Stevens. Ralph Lauren was always trying to get that exclusive fabric.
When the British took over, all that exclusivity was lost.
post #385 of 426
Quote:
Originally Posted by TartanWarrior View Post

#3 was the blue, #10 was White, #7 was Yellow, #5 was Pink, #2 was Ecru. Back when I was there, you could see the suit measurements of all the US Presidents, including JFK and Abraham Lincoln.
Most of the military generals and admirals has their uniforms made by Brooks Brothers, including
General Ulysses S. Grant.

Ther used to be a suit factory and tie factory in Long Island City and our shirt factory was in Patterson, NJ. A second factory was added in Garland, NC to accommodate the poly/cotton shirts and Brooks Brothers Japan and the Japanese sizing. I don't think any of those factories are used any more.

The heavy we sight fabric of the Brooks Brothers Oxford was an exclusive 10s 2/ply fabric manufactured by J.P. Stevens. Ralph Lauren was always trying to get that exclusive fabric.
When the British took over, all that exclusivity was lost.

That's really cool. Thanks for sharing.

Curious, I know some makers have sent vintage Brooks Brothers OCBDs to their manufacturers to get the collars copied. The results are usually good, but still not the same as what we see in old '50s-'70s BB photos. Do you know why that is? Was it about the weight of the fabric? Or maybe just one of those things where small variations make each interpretation unique?

Also, I know BB changed the body and style of their shirts through the years, but aside from that M&S takeover, did they ever change the collar? I had a couple of vintage BB OCBDs a few years ago -- going from the ~1930s/ 40s through the '90s -- but they were all different sizes, so it was hard to directly compare the collars in close detail. Any knowledge of whether they changed the collar, along with the adjustments they made to the body?
post #386 of 426
The weight of the fabric had a lot to do with the look. The length of the collar had little to do with the " roll", it was always in the placement of the button-down buttons.

I can't tell you what changes were made after I left in 1982. A lot of changes were made. Today, most of their shirts are made in the Far East. I don't think they use the numbers anymore. That system had begun in the 1800's.

Fortunately, the new Italian owners seem to be doing a great job at Brooks Brothers. It may also br the influence of Brooks Brothers Japan. The Japanese have an amazing fashion fetish for the Brooks Brothers look. It was fun helping to open the first Brooks Brothers store in Tokyo in 1980.
I managed to make the cover of Japanese Vogue, along with 3 other young Brooks Brothers executives.

At Lands' End, most of our better shirts were made by the Smart Shirt Company in Kowloon, Hong Kong, one of the very best shirt manufacturers in the world. They made all our Viyealla Cotton/wool
Tartan shirts when I placed the world's largest contract for Viyella fabric. We seriously undercut Brooks Brothers and Ralph Lairen in Viyella shirts by going direct and cutting out the middle men.
We were one of the first companies to place long-term contract for fabric, like pinpoint oxford.
I moved woven shirts at Lands ' End to take over knitwear and sweaters. I helped Lands' End place the largest order for cashmere sweaters in the history of China. We moved a $4 million cashmere
sweater business from Scotland to China. It was so successful that I was able to help the Vhinese government establish a second sweater manufacturing facility in Mongolia.

Brooks Brothers was great training, with our own factories, but being one of the very first product managers at Lands' End was the best job of my life and an amazing ride. I got there just as the company started into preppy clothing as was just $10 million. Prior to that, they had been in yacht
supplies and canvas luggage. When I left, the company was $900 million. Tremendous growth and an amazing entrepreneurial ethic.

Followed the man who hired me to Eastern Mountain Sports, then a stint at Cabella's, followed by
a position as Marketing/Merchandising Manager at Umbro, and then to Reebok, where I started a Global outdoor apparel business to compliment the Reebok outdoor footwear and to compete against Nike. That was another fun job! Umbro is now owned by Nike, and Reebok was bought by
Addidas.

I'm now happily retired, but miss all the world travel I did in my career.
post #387 of 426
Love hearing your stories about Brooks and Lands End and your experience in the industry. Thanks for sharing. I hope you'll stick around and share some more.
post #388 of 426
Many thanks
post #389 of 426
Quote:
Originally Posted by An Acute Style View Post

This is the Ivy BD, yeah?  Something isn't right about the tie space.  Too much, I think.  Several of my BD do that unbalanced roll thing.  The right side looks fine, but the left doesn't roll enough near the button hole.  I wonder if collar band height is an important variable for the matrix.  Kamakura has a very high collar band.  I wonder how that contributes to the roll.   

Yessir this is the one. Actually while I was taking the protractor to the shirt, I kinda felt like maybe the two buttons weren't sewn on at exactly the same height—like the left one (from the perspective of looking at it like in a photograph) was slightly higher than the right one. I will investigate further to see if that is true and if so, i guess see if i care enough to try and fix it lol.
post #390 of 426

They all look good to me, but I think the Mercer is the nicest to my eyes.

 

"Heinz-Ulrich von B."

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Classic Menswear
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › The OCBD collar roll thread