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List of True Premium Denim versus Premium Priced Denim - Page 3

post #31 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by horriblyjollyjinx
there are no brands outside of Japan that justify a $200+ price tag, in regards to quality. For around $100, buy APC, if you want to spend more, turn to Japan. SC 1947 cost $150 shipped from mil-mil.net.

I tried my hardest to decipher the Japanese on mil-mil.net but to no avail.
post #32 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy
Every company has these costs though. Actually these costs are probably higher for highly marketed brands like True Religion or Seven for all Mankind than for, say, Eternal.

Probably, but that doesn't make their product any better, which is what I care about. I don't want to pay for marketing.

I said that I was not ripped off just because I payed 5 times more than the material and labor cost the manufacturer. If I pay more than 5 times the cost of material and labor, then I would be more ripped off.

This does not invalidate what I said, but rather reinforce it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy
Raw materials (i.e the denim) is the least expensive part of the jeans. The relative difference in cost between a $2/yard and $8/yard denim and the quality of the trims is relatively small compared to, say, laundry costs. A 1-rinse is about a $1/piece wash, compared to intricate washes (say, those used by our favorite bitch brand, True Religion) which could be, say $14/piece. So it might actually be more expensive to make and market a pair of True Religions than a pair of Sugarcanes.

Again, does not make the quality better, thus it is irrelevant to this topic. price != quality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy
Denim quality matters (in general) to denimheads. But let's not lose perspective here and say that Japanese repros are objectively a better deal than a "fashion" jean.

This thread is specifically about quality jeans, so please don't derail it. No one said anything of the likes.
post #33 of 54
Dude, all I was doing was responding to your points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by horriblyjollyjinx
When I am buying a product I am not paying for only the material and the labor, I am also paying for the costs of the manufacturers whole organisation. All parts of the organisation, like administration, are as important as the producing part.
There are many things that aren't directly related to the product that the manufacturer needs to pay for in order to have something produced.

I am also paying for the middleman, the store, to take the product to me.

I am not being ripped off if I buy $50 worth of material for $250 as there are immaterial things that cost money too.

You brought this up, which is why I mentioned that these costs are higher for highly marketed, managed brands than for smaller, niche brands. And as for this validating your point, it really doesn't. A lot of these smaller brands know that they are marketing to a niche market, a market that is willing to pay higher prices, so the prices are even more jacked up. And this is peripheral, but the $50/piece I quoted is for something like the highest end R for 45RPM jeans. Most of the repro jeans we talk about here cost probably less than $35, or even $30, a piece, to manufacture.

Quote:
Since this discussion is about which brands actually makes a, physically, quality product you can't argue that brands with 'good' design but lesser quality are also quality, as 'quality' has already been defined for this discussion.

Quality actually has not been defined for this discussion, which is why we are discussing it now. You are saying that "quality" can be measured by denim quality and construction techniques. I am saying that these are not the only factors at play. For example, you did not mention the work of wash houses. If you want to make a good one rinse jean or raw jean, the cost (note, not the price) of the wash is negligible. If you want a good, processed jean (say that of Gilded Age, for example), you (the manufacturer) are going to have to pay a considerable amount. I would say that this factors into any measure of "quality" as well. Because your (and actually, my) preference might be for raw or one rinse jeans doesn't preclud this from being a significant factor. Repros are also reasonably easy to design. You take a vintage pair, and tada, you're most of the way there. Seven and Paige Premium jeans became and remain popular for a reason. They are flattering to the majority of women. It takes a fair bit of work to get these fits right. I would say that a good fit is pretty important when it comes to deciding "quality".

You are right in that price != quality, but neither does denim quality and good construction alone comprise the total measure of quality, unless you start with the narrow view that only one rinse or raw repros are worth anything.

If you really want to get the best bang for your buck, go to the local rodeo store, and get the jeans actual cowboys use for something like $25. The mark up is significantly less, and you know that the jeans are built to last.
post #34 of 54
Seven may not have the best styling, but in my experience the construction has been excellent.
post #35 of 54
true premium denim:
nudie
dior
dolcegabbana
levi's capital e/lvc
dsquared2
evisu
neighborhood
45rpm
sugrcane
5ep
rag&bone
rogan
acne
a.p.c
john galliano
true religion
tsubi
diesel
replay

premium priced denim:
paper denim & cloth
575
7FAM
antik
bape
bbc
guess premium denim
grail denim

red monkey
post #36 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by jean_connoisseur23
true premium denim:
nudie
dior
dolcegabbana
levi's capital e/lvc
dsquared2
evisu
neighborhood
45rpm
sugrcane
5ep
rag&bone
rogan
acne
a.p.c
john galliano
true religion
tsubi
diesel
replay

premium priced denim:
paper denim & cloth
575
7FAM
antik
bape
bbc
guess premium denim
grail denim

red monkey


why is dolce on that list? true religion? seriously.
post #37 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweedlesinpink
why is dolce on that list? true religion? seriously.

Yeah, I have issues with that list as well.

I would definitely stick Acne, Dsquared, Evisu (especially now), neighbourhood, John Galliano, True Religion, Replay, and Tsubi (although I do like their crazy stitching details) on the "not worth it at Stateside prices" list. Acne is pretty affordable (actually, usually cheaper than Nudies) in Scandanavia, but $200+ here, Dsquared, John Galliano, and Evisu are just an attempt to cash in on the premium denim craze, as far as I'm concerned, True Religion started strong, at a reasonable pricepoint (~$170) and then started to suck, and Replay just never got to the level of game that Diesel did (although I wouldn't call them a complete rip off brand the way some ot the others are.) The construction on some Tsubis is criminally bad.
post #38 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy
If you really want to get the best bang for your buck, go to the local rodeo store, and get the jeans actual cowboys use for something like $25. The mark up is significantly less, and you know that the jeans are built to last.

Thank you for this. Perspective is nice. Especially for those of us that would be commiting financial irresponsibility by buying $200+ jeans. Kids college funds come first.
post #39 of 54
My question about denim quality: I'm buying a pair of Number (N)ines. I'm split between two pairs. One is a perfect fit, skinny, supertight, distressed, like a rockstar. Awesome. The second is more reasonally priced and is raw, but i dont like the fit as much , and because it is tight, it will stretch and become even less tight. My question is, is number (n)ine's denim construction good enough so that you are not just paying for a look, and does their premium denim have good enough construction to last more than a year
post #40 of 54
Thread Starter 
Just came back from the sale of the century. Tried desperately to find Loomstates that fit me but I swear, the inseams are at least 34-36" and of course they had distressing/markings on the end so if I hemed it, I would have lost it. Tried on Levi's Premium. I think they were Stackers. Tried 32x30 and almost killed myself. I am a true 31 though that would mean no belt and little breathing room so I wear 32 (down from my 33 looser fit days). The 32's were rediculously tight. They were low, and I think boot cut. Anyway, just really hurt to have them on. They didn't have 33x30 but they did have 33x34 (and I think 33x32). Again, distressing on the hem and I didn't want to lose that. Also, the tailors I have visited locally cannot do the original hem. Couldn't find a pair of Rogans that fit for the life of me. One, sort of fit then I saw the $450 price tag and I tossed it back. Saw Blue Bloods, Chip and Pepper, Rogan, Loomstate, Levi's, LA Denim Atlier (sp)?, Sevens, True Religion, PD&C, Edun, Great China Wall, Howe, Genetic, Notify, and maybe a few I missed. Thanks again for everyone's help.
post #41 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy
Yeah, I have issues with that list as well.

I would definitely stick Acne, Dsquared, Evisu (especially now), neighbourhood, John Galliano, True Religion, Replay, and Tsubi (although I do like their crazy stitching details) on the "not worth it at Stateside prices" list. Acne is pretty affordable (actually, usually cheaper than Nudies) in Scandanavia, but $200+ here, Dsquared, John Galliano, and Evisu are just an attempt to cash in on the premium denim craze, as far as I'm concerned, True Religion started strong, at a reasonable pricepoint (~$170) and then started to suck, and Replay just never got to the level of game that Diesel did (although I wouldn't call them a complete rip off brand the way some ot the others are.) The construction on some Tsubis is criminally bad.

Are Tsubi's the same company that makes the shoes? Or am I confused. Thank you for contributing so much to this list. It is a great reference.
post #42 of 54
The way I understand it, what he meant is the durability and quality of the material (putting aside aesthetics and fit, which are totally subjective anyway). If that's the case, then I assume one can rate Japanese jeans being at the top of the scale. The reason is simple, they use better materials and better production methods. That's the objectivity you can talk about. Considering the material, and we all know a lot about it, you can rate jeans one relatively to the other as being better or worst in this aspect. When you know this, you can judge the aesthetics, the fit, the price, all the subjective things of your preference, to reach a conclusion about the value of the jeans.
post #43 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by sygyzy
Are Tsubi's the same company that makes the shoes? Or am I confused. Thank you for contributing so much to this list. It is a great reference.
No, the shoe company you are thinking of is Tsubo, and the jeans company is Tsubi. It is sort of confusing.
post #44 of 54
Tumi makes luggage.
post #45 of 54
I think this discussion just needs a clarification of terminology. My understanding, and my opinion as well, is that the word "premium" should be reserved for the material of the denim and so only brands that use high quality material would be under that bracket.

Not necessarily limited to selvage repros, since many brands produce denim using very high quality non-selvage denim.

The confusion is when us denimheads mix up "premium" for "high-end", and I think that sqwerwegzy is asking for opinions as to which of the "high-end" labels can be classified as "premium". At least, it seems to me that that would be the easiest way to differentiate and also to answer his question.
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