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Are these Church's corrected grain? - Page 3

post #31 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigcicero View Post
Well, I think the issue is that black calf is not corrected, whereas polished binder is corrected (at least, that's what I understand about Church's). The shortcut is not the time to prepare the leather but rather the fact that it's cheaper to use corrected grain. Although frankly their polished binder leather looks pretty good. I was comparing it to some other similar shoes, and whereas others look plasticky, these look like... well... polished black calf.

The point I was making is that Church's give people a choice and there is no price difference. If people do not like polished binder, they can get calf for the same price.

If Church's starting offering certain shoes only available in polished binder then I can understand concerns.
post #32 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macallan View Post
The point I was making is that Church's give people a choice and there is no price difference. If people do not like polished binder, they can get calf for the same price.

If Church's starting offering certain shoes only available in polished binder then I can understand concerns.

That's actually a really good point. And I'm one of those that happen to prefer the polished binder!
post #33 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigcicero View Post
Well, you'll notice this model is called "Paris", which I couldn't find anywhere else. I asked the Church's store (in NYC) about this and they say it's from a brand new line, called the City Line, released "this year." .

City line look cheap inside shoe.
Are they same price as normal Church?
Me love Church but me never by City line,
post #34 of 45

Are you sure those Church's City Line Paris shoes are "Polished Binder"?  Church's website shows all the City Line shoes come in the sole "Capital Black" color.  From the website pictures, the Capital Black shine looks in between the "Box Calf Black" and the "Polished Binder Black".  Can someone confirm the Capital Black is Corrected Grain as well?

 

Thanks to this site, I'm schooling myself on the long term effects of Corrected Grain vs non-CG with diligent shining.  Is it possible to shine the Box Calf over time to be as shiny as CG?


Edited by BonesDT - 10/9/11 at 5:19am
post #35 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macallan View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigcicero View Post
Well, I think the issue is that black calf is not corrected, whereas polished binder is corrected (at least, that's what I understand about Church's). The shortcut is not the time to prepare the leather but rather the fact that it's cheaper to use corrected grain. Although frankly their polished binder leather looks pretty good. I was comparing it to some other similar shoes, and whereas others look plasticky, these look like... well... polished black calf.

The point I was making is that Church's give people a choice and there is no price difference. If people do not like polished binder, they can get calf for the same price.

If Church's starting offering certain shoes only available in polished binder then I can understand concerns.



Bookbinder is simply a term for the finish. All Church shoes are made from full grain calf even the suede where the part near the animal's body is on the outside.. That is not "corrected" grain. Bookbinder is simply a finish that takes a higher shine and keeps it longer. Since I don't like a high shine, in my Churches with this finish I just use paste occasionally (never wax) to get a low shine look. In fact, just brushing them is really enough for these shoes or perhaps the twice yearly moisturising (that's enough for most shoes anyway)

 

post #36 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqualung View Post




Bookbinder is simply a term for the finish. All Church shoes are made from full grain calf even the suede where the part near the animal's body is on the outside.. That is not "corrected" grain. Bookbinder is simply a finish that takes a higher shine and keeps it longer. Since I don't like a high shine, in my Churches with this finish I just use paste occasionally (never wax) to get a low shine look. In fact, just brushing them is really enough for these shoes or perhaps the twice yearly moisturising (that's enough for most shoes anyway)

Are you sure this is true? Can someone speak to this?
post #37 of 45

Apologies for bringing up an old thread, but I purchased some of the City line shoes about 18 months ago (from Royal Exchange store in London) and it’s been interesting seeing how they’ve fared in this period.

 

In summary, I wouldn’t purchase them again because (i) they’re not a bargain, (ii) they haven’t worn so well and (iii) there are better shoes at a similar price point. They’re not all bad though.

 

I’ve attached some pics to show how they’ve worn in this time (note they only came back from resoling/restoration from Church’s a couple of months ago). They are a bit manky and misshaped, but not overly so.

 

700

 

700

 

700

 

 

The linen half lining was a particular issue for me in the first month or two, not because of any particular deficit in quality, but where the shoe naturally creases along the bottom of the toes (and mine seemed to crease quite a bit – as you can see in the pics, there are in fact two creases, one horizontal along the toe line and one diagonal further down), the creases were very painful to begin with. Toes rubbing against an inwards crease/fold of linen or canvas is much more discomforting than against mere leather (which I don’t think would crease in the same way anyway). After a few months though, everything softened up above the toes and although the creases on the surface remain, it’s not something I feel when walking. In fact, the shoes are now exceptionally comfortable, and while I think this is the case with most pairs of shoes which have been worn in, these are particularly comfortable.

 

As to how they have worn, the creases have been depicted and discussed above, but more recently (and what drove me to search for this thread), there is quite a bit of cracking and in one point (see close-up image), there is what I would describe as a crevice – perhaps a symptom of these shoes being corrected leather. It feels like I could open up the crevice and peel part of the top layer away. They’ve been treated with the correct brushing, polishing care etc and even shoe trees haven’t done much to save them (though I admit, because I now have a number of other shoes I prefer, these have been relegated to the occasional deprivation of shoe trees).

 

I mentioned that these have already been into Church’s to be resold. They couldn’t do much about the creases (and I’m not sure the severe cracking had begun when I took them in), but they did at least revive the linen to a white colour (i.e. give it a good steam clean). Apparently I’ve still got another 2 resoles left, but I don’t imagine they’ll last until then. While I may also put down the slightly excessive wear to the fact I sometimes spend 18-24 hours in the office wearing them continually, and have a propensity to walk a mile and back to grab lunch every now and again in the City, these shoes don’t have the innate durability or quality of my other shoes.

 

So if anyone were considering buying a pair of these, I don’t think it would be a disaster (especially if they could be purchased at a sale price – I know branches in London were recently doing 20-30% off certain City line shoes), but I think either the linen lining and/or quality of leather makes it difficult for the shoes to hold their shape properly.

post #38 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotoriousMarquis View Post


Are you sure this is true? Can someone speak to this?

I think the expert just did and I'd have to concur after wearing Churches for 40 years

 

And btw, I have never seen so many crappy looking shoes either my own or what the other men wear as I've seen on here.

Do you all buy 2nds or defective shoes in the wrong size? Never seen this junk in real life. Strange.

post #39 of 45
Seconds doesn't mean the shoe is crappy, it means it has a minor defect that ultimately won't spoil the look of the shoe in the long run. I have CG church's on the city line, and they're actually fully lined in leather, but they're also chelseas and probably a bit more expensive. I've worn them maybe 7 times but have loved them over the past year or so, and have really taken good care of them. No sign of aging, but again, I've worn them under 10 times.
post #40 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotoriousMarquis View Post

Seconds doesn't mean the shoe is crappy, it means it has a minor defect that ultimately won't spoil the look of the shoe in the long run. I have CG church's on the city line, and they're actually fully lined in leather, but they're also chelseas and probably a bit more expensive. I've worn them maybe 7 times but have loved them over the past year or so, and have really taken good care of them. No sign of aging, but again, I've worn them under 10 times.

Stop deluding yourself. 2nds are 2nds for more than some minor blemish that  can easily be corrected in finishing. The shoes may have accidently been made on the wrong last, or someone forgot to put the cork in and the inspector could feel it wasn't there,or the linings were put on wrong or a 100 other things. I didn't even know that AE or church sold 2nds until recently and just assumed that like a lot of businesses tey just disposed of their defectively made shoes or gave them to the poor through some charity.

When you buy any sort of 2nd it's like buying a different brand because only the top stuff is really representativeof their product. It's like buying the 2nd or 3rd bottled wines at Lafite, they are not the top wine that the estate's name goes on.

Buy used shoes is even worse. All you're buying is an old piece of leather that was once a certain brand of shoe. It's like going to a junkyand and buying a Rolls Royce. It's just an old piece of metal at this point.

post #41 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joker Man View Post

Buy used shoes is even worse. All you're buying is an old piece of leather that was once a certain brand of shoe. It's like going to a junkyand and buying a Rolls Royce. It's just an old piece of metal at this point.

So my 10 year + old Lobbs I bought at retail and are now very well used cease to be Lobbs? What about a used pair of Lobbs I got off a member here for a steal that were approx 3 years old lightly used? Are the shoes I bought some 11 years ago still true Lobbs but the 2nd hand lightly used pair not true Lobbs? Where is the tipping point when a pair of shoes stop representing a given brand when they get used facepalm.gif ?
post #42 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klobber View Post

So my 10 year + old Lobbs I bought at retail and are now very well used cease to be Lobbs? What about a used pair of Lobbs I got off a member here for a steal that were approx 3 years old lightly used? Are the shoes I bought some 11 years ago still true Lobbs but the 2nd hand lightly used pair not true Lobbs? Where is the tipping point when a pair of shoes stop representing a given brand when they get used facepalm.gif ?

+1
post #43 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotoriousMarquis View Post


+1

I dunno. When does a blonde cease being a blonde?  Hmm when her hair turns grey?

post #44 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joker Man View Post

I dunno. When does a blonde cease being a blonde?  Hmm when her hair turns grey?

When her husband runs out of cash for coiffures.
post #45 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by meister View Post


When her husband runs out of cash for coiffures.

 

Noice.

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