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Are these Church's corrected grain? - Page 2

post #16 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macallan View Post
Church's are good at making good quality conservative shoes and that is what the company is about, Lobb is the same in the bespoke department. If you want fancy designs then look elsewhere, if you are not a customer of the two firms.

As for price, they probably cost more in the US then in the UK; Church's do cost slightly more than C&J and I think both should be priced equally. Basing opinion only on price is tricky, Meyer & Mortimer are about £500 cheaper than Dege & Skinner for a two-piece suit, both have a military cut but if you preferred Dege would you go to Meyer?

The opinion that Church's is overprice is flawed.
- Lodger sell Alfred Sargent shoes for £550, Church's Royal Collection is £430.
- Is the quality different between Church's normal range and Edward Green worth over £200
- How about the quality difference between the Royal Range at £430 and G&G at £565; besides more design options G&G are not worth £135.
Even the points above are flawed, but it shows how it is difficult to compare.

We have different styles, I am looking 4 new work shoes and would ideally want, all shoes with a round toe last, in black calfskin: cap-toe, punched-toe, semi-brogue with medallion and full-brogue with medallion. Church's have this in their Royal Collection, although I would prefer a more tradition toe.
Someone else may go for oxfords, derbys and maybe even loafers, in different shades of brown and red in a chisel-toe.

Church's make their shoes so they can be resoled three times; use shoe-trees, polish and treat the shoes as required and they should last three resoles. I went to Church's a few years ago and was talking shoe rotation with the assistant, he said an older gent recently has his 10 year Church's resoled with some repair and they also had a women bring her husband's 6-month old Church's. Take care of your Church's and they will last a long time.


Thanks for the nice analysis!

I'm surprised to find how tricky it really is to put a value on shoes. What made it complicated for me was that I wanted a good quality shoe but also something that looked modern but not too modern, something afforded by this new design. Unfortunately the C&Js, with modern design and offered cheaply by PLal, didn't fit my foot, so with the clear winner in low price unavailable I had to use "likability" to choose other shoes. The comparable Alden shoe looked a little too traditional for my goal. After I bought the Church's I found some Allen Edmonds that were quite nice (new model called Rawlins... http://www.allenedmonds.com/aeonline...ategory=120552 ). They look similar, have full leather lining, nice looking leather, and they're $150 cheaper than the Church's... but they don't look quite as nice and sleek as the Church's!

It's tricky to figure out if "looking nice" is worth an extra $150, when the Church's look like they won't last as long as the AE! I personally have a hard time overriding my value-conscious logical brain because of styling... but these particular Church's look good on my foot. Unless there are some other semi-modern-looking shoes that I'm missing...
post #17 of 45
Hey, if you like the shoes and they fit well you've bought well too. Years ago a seasoned shoe salesperson told me that fit if far more important than price. I was umming and aaaring over a pair of Church's vs a pair of C&Js . Like you the C&Js didn't fit as well because they were too narrow for me but I couldn't get past the fact the Church's cost more.

It was good advice and I've been a fan of Church's ever since. They're good quality and they will last you as long as any other good quality shoe out there - moreover you like the look so you'll feel good about wearing them for years to come.

Even linen linings have been the subject of debate here - most thing full leather is better but a couple of shoemakers have written in over the years to question that and remind us all that linen vamp linings were the material of choice for many years. Good quality linen will last many years.

Congratulations on a handsome pair of shoes!
post #18 of 45
As it happens, I've recently picked up a pair of Church's in polished binder (Balmoral) as well. Will be interesting to see how they wear in the next few months, but they do fit very well.
post #19 of 45
What is the purpose of the linen lining? Why would they use this instead of leather?

I really like the BB patent leather laceups by Churchs, but I noticed these were linen lines as well. Should this be a concern for a pair of shoes I might wear 2x year?

I like the sandlewood binder on the shannon and grafton actually fwiw.
post #20 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leather man View Post
Hey, if you like the shoes and they fit well you've bought well too. Years ago a seasoned shoe salesperson told me that fit if far more important than price. I was umming and aaaring over a pair of Church's vs a pair of C&Js . Like you the C&Js didn't fit as well because they were too narrow for me but I couldn't get past the fact the Church's cost more.

It was good advice and I've been a fan of Church's ever since. They're good quality and they will last you as long as any other good quality shoe out there - moreover you like the look so you'll feel good about wearing them for years to come.

Even linen linings have been the subject of debate here - most thing full leather is better but a couple of shoemakers have written in over the years to question that and remind us all that linen vamp linings were the material of choice for many years. Good quality linen will last many years.

Congratulations on a handsome pair of shoes!

Thanks! You know, I'm not one to get paralysis by analysis... and yet that's happening to me here. What you wrote here snapped me out of that. After all, you're right, it's the fit at the end of the day....
post #21 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by karlconnolly View Post
As it happens, I've recently picked up a pair of Church's in polished binder (Balmoral) as well. Will be interesting to see how they wear in the next few months, but they do fit very well.

Good luck! I imagine they'll be great.
post #22 of 45
They aren't from the new line, but for what it's worth, I really like the Church's that I have.
post #23 of 45
The shoes in the first post don't look like polished binder to me - if you open the first pic they're not shiny enough. Looks like calf and I like the design.
post #24 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by txeconomist View Post
What is the purpose of the linen lining? Why would they use this instead of leather?

I really like the BB patent leather laceups by Churchs, but I noticed these were linen lines as well. Should this be a concern for a pair of shoes I might wear 2x year?

I like the sandlewood binder on the shannon and grafton actually fwiw.

It seems there are different stories on the linen/canvas lining. Some optimists say that it's desirable because the shoe is lighter and cooler, particularly good for moderate weather. The cynics (or realists, perhaps) say that it's cheaper to make than a full leather lining, which is probably true, so it's a cost-cutting measure by Church's.

I'm not sure which one is "higher quality", as in longer durability. I've read that the linen can wear through quicker, thus wearing the outer leather. However, I've also read that good quality linen will last a long time.

Being relatively new to the study of shoes, I can't offer an expert opinion. However, from my research it seems that Church's offers high quality on "shortcuts"; for example, that their polished binder uses very good leather (even though it's corrected) and the linen durability is good (despite the fact it's not full leather lining). The only issue is how much you want to spend, but as Leatherman posted, it's not just cost but fit that counts too.

Any more expert opinions out there?
post #25 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Brody View Post
They aren't from the new line, but for what it's worth, I really like the Church's that I have.

Well, you'll notice this model is called "Paris", which I couldn't find anywhere else. I asked the Church's store (in NYC) about this and they say it's from a brand new line, called the City Line, released "this year." He went on to say that they're on a brand new last, too. so though they look similar to an existing shoe (can't remember the model), they're slightly different and seemingly a bit sleeker.

I'd be curious if anyone else knows about a new line.
post #26 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tidybeard View Post
The shoes in the first post don't look like polished binder to me - if you open the first pic they're not shiny enough. Looks like calf and I like the design.

I like the design too. They're definitely polished binder (they come with a leaflet in that box that verifies that), but I was also surprised that they look like a nice calf because the don't have excessive shine. It seems that there are different calibers of polished binder, and these seem to be of the higher caliber.
post #27 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigcicero View Post
Being relatively new to the study of shoes, I can't offer an expert opinion. However, from my research it seems that Church's offers high quality on "shortcuts"; for example, that their polished binder uses very good leather (even though it's corrected) and the linen durability is good (despite the fact it's not full leather lining).

Herring Shoes sell the Consul for £335 in black calf and polished binder - is this really a shortcut by Church's? Although I prefer their calf leather, polished binder is easy to polish.
Interesting people do not mention corrected grain when discussing patent leather shoes.

Personally, I think the criticisms are more about the parent company than the shoes. Had Prada never got involved, I suspect they would be more adored.
post #28 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macallan View Post
Interesting people do not mention corrected grain when discussing patent leather shoes.



That's because they're not the same.
post #29 of 45
Corrected grain leather can be used for patent leather shoes.
post #30 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macallan View Post
Herring Shoes sell the Consul for £335 in black calf and polished binder - is this really a shortcut by Church's?

Well, I think the issue is that black calf is not corrected, whereas polished binder is corrected (at least, that's what I understand about Church's). The shortcut is not the time to prepare the leather but rather the fact that it's cheaper to use corrected grain. Although frankly their polished binder leather looks pretty good. I was comparing it to some other similar shoes, and whereas others look plasticky, these look like... well... polished black calf.
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