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Site Topics - Part II - Page 653

post #9781 of 15052
Come on, vox. You're not the only one who cares. I'd argue that few care more deeply than the mods. Now that I'm one of them (though not in MC), I can tell you that wholeheartedly. Several of us newly-appointed mods became such because we did care so much.

But it's a hard job, and there have to be rules for mods to follow. We talk about this being a bar, but at some level you do have to have some kind of an, umm, constitution. Guidelines for the mods to follow. And the moderation around here is generally pretty solid. Maybe you don't love the way some of it is going down - let's use this thread as a place for some productive discussion. How would you moderate out the shit in MC? Ban posters with dumb questions? Or bad taste? If the latter, then who is to be named the (pardon the phrasing here I just can't help myself and actually it's sort of making a point) arbiter elegantarium?

I posted a few attempts at meaningful discourse in MC recently and basically found that I was ignored. Probably appropriate in some regard, but I did post a serious thread asking for some bespoke advice and was sad to see not only how quickly it was off the front page but also at the lack of response. I didn't think it was that bad a thread.

How would you change the moderation, understanding that there may have been a miscommunication with respect to the bike thread, but focused perhaps more on the larger problem of quality in MC?
post #9782 of 15052
Perhaps you are mistaken and posted your thread on Purseforum? confused.gif

BTW, PF never banned me or even timed me out. Take that, SF.
post #9783 of 15052
^ A case in point. What do you do with a bris?
post #9784 of 15052
Your custom title is well deserved smile.gif

I'm a mod on PF so watch yoself.
post #9785 of 15052
Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas View Post

Come on, vox. You're not the only one who cares. I'd argue that few care more deeply than the mods. Now that I'm one of them (though not in MC), I can tell you that wholeheartedly. Several of us newly-appointed mods became such because we did care so much.
But it's a hard job, and there have to be rules for mods to follow. We talk about this being a bar, but at some level you do have to have some kind of an, umm, constitution. Guidelines for the mods to follow. And the moderation around here is generally pretty solid. Maybe you don't love the way some of it is going down - let's use this thread as a place for some productive discussion. How would you moderate out the shit in MC? Ban posters with dumb questions? Or bad taste? If the latter, then who is to be named the (pardon the phrasing here I just can't help myself and actually it's sort of making a point) arbiter elegantarium?
I posted a few attempts at meaningful discourse in MC recently and basically found that I was ignored. Probably appropriate in some regard, but I did post a serious thread asking for some bespoke advice and was sad to see not only how quickly it was off the front page but also at the lack of response. I didn't think it was that bad a thread.
How would you change the moderation, understanding that there may have been a miscommunication with respect to the bike thread, but focused perhaps more on the larger problem of quality in MC?
Please repost. For what it is worth, I agree that MC is pretty crappy and I find it more efficient to follow a few posts and only the scan the index every couple of days. I rarely find anything new to follow.
post #9786 of 15052
As the past couple pages have shown, being a mod is tricky business.

How do you balance the needs of those who feel like they have the right to say whatever they want to say with those who feel they have the right only to hear what they want to hear?

How do you enforce sensible rules while making sensible exceptions, without making those who aren't exceptional feel you're being insensible?
post #9787 of 15052
Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas View Post

Come on, vox. You're not the only one who cares. I'd argue that few care more deeply than the mods. Now that I'm one of them (though not in MC), I can tell you that wholeheartedly. Several of us newly-appointed mods became such because we did care so much.
But it's a hard job, and there have to be rules for mods to follow. We talk about this being a bar, but at some level you do have to have some kind of an, umm, constitution. Guidelines for the mods to follow. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
And the moderation around here is generally pretty solid. Maybe you don't love the way some of it is going down - let's use this thread as a place for some productive discussion. How would you moderate out the shit in MC? Ban posters with dumb questions? Or bad taste? If the latter, then who is to be named the (pardon the phrasing here I just can't help myself and actually it's sort of making a point) arbiter elegantarium?
I posted a few attempts at meaningful discourse in MC recently and basically found that I was ignored. Probably appropriate in some regard, but I did post a serious thread asking for some bespoke advice and was sad to see not only how quickly it was off the front page but also at the lack of response. I didn't think it was that bad a thread.
How would you change the moderation, understanding that there may have been a miscommunication with respect to the bike thread, but focused perhaps more on the larger problem of quality in MC?

If SF was a once bar, and now is a bar with bar rules, then it also now a bar full of advertisements and where at any time, one of the dudes on a stool next to you is there to sell you something. (SF is also a bar, it would seem, where it you can't drink a G&T in the scotch section, and in which beers are forbidden in the Frozen Mocktail section. And sir, please pay for your drink before you leave your section.)

It is a bar in which all conversations, habits, and behaviors are recorded, sometime surveilled, and then essentially packaged as commercial inducement.

That inducement has to do with volume and throughout: advertise and sell on Styleforum because you reach a large "market." Someone searches "seven fold tie" on Google, clicks the SF link, and only sees a period?

Outrageous. We simply can't have that.

"Large" in this case means, by and large, eyeballs. Each one counts the same. Since so many of these are the drive-by posters, the style of "journalism" and moderation on the site is geared toward that front, in my opinion.

Why are the minor, peninsular sub-forums of SF deemed more tolerable than the main (by activity) MC forum? Is there a lot of selling and marketing of wares in the What Did You Eat Last Night thread? No? No bacon being hawked? Are there a lot of Google-searchers coming in asking, "What, exactly, is salt and can I use it at a wedding?" No?

Keep in mind that at the top, there is the serene feeling that nothing is wrong. SF today, the story goes, is just like SF ten, eight, five, three years ago. There is no car crash, folks, move along.

The type of fixes that I have in mind are impossible because they require the reversal of the emerging business model of SF, which is quantity-driven.
post #9788 of 15052
Quote:
Originally Posted by F. Corbera View Post

If SF was a once bar, and now is a bar with bar rules, then it also now a bar full of advertisements and where at any time, one of the dudes on a stool next to you is there to sell you something. (SF is also a bar, it would seem, where it you can't drink a G&T in the scotch section, and in which beers are forbidden in the Frozen Mocktail section. And sir, please pay for your drink before you leave your section.)
It is a bar in which all conversations, habits, and behaviors are recorded, sometime surveilled, and then essentially packaged as commercial inducement.
That inducement has to do with volume and throughout: advertise and sell on Styleforum because you reach a large "market." Someone searches "seven fold tie" on Google, clicks the SF link, and only sees a period?
Outrageous. We simply can't have that.
"Large" in this case means, by and large, eyeballs. Each one counts the same. Since so many of these are the drive-by posters, the style of "journalism" and moderation on the site is geared toward that front, in my opinion.
Why are the minor, peninsular sub-forums of SF deemed more tolerable than the main (by activity) MC forum? Is there a lot of selling and marketing of wares in the What Did You Eat Last Night thread? No? No bacon being hawked? Are there a lot of Google-searchers coming in asking, "What, exactly, is salt and can I use it at a wedding?" No?
Keep in mind that at the top, there is the serene feeling that nothing is wrong. SF today, the story goes, is just like SF ten, eight, five, three years ago. There is no car crash, folks, move along.
The type of fixes that I have in mind are impossible because they require the reversal of the emerging business model of SF, which is quantity-driven.

This is key.
post #9789 of 15052
Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post

Please repost. For what it is worth, I agree that MC is pretty crappy and I find it more efficient to follow a few posts and only the scan the index every couple of days. I rarely find anything new to follow.

Totally agree.
post #9790 of 15052
Quote:
Originally Posted by emptym View Post

As the past couple pages have shown, being a mod is tricky business.
How do you balance the needs of those who feel like they have the right to say whatever they want to say with those who feel they have the right only to hear what they want to hear?
How do you enforce sensible rules while making sensible exceptions, without making those who aren't exceptional feel you're being insensible?

i do not know. but there has to be an answer. if we truly care, and i think we do, we will find one.

nvm...
post #9791 of 15052
Quote:
Originally Posted by emptym View Post

As the past couple pages have shown, being a mod is tricky business.
How do you balance the needs of those who feel like they have the right to say whatever they want to say with those who feel they have the right only to hear what they want to hear?
How do you enforce sensible rules while making sensible exceptions, without making those who aren't exceptional feel you're being insensible?

Here are three very simple ways to start.

1. Create a higher post threshold under which new members cannot start a thread. Let's say 50 posts.

2. Create a new member subforum. The first five threads started by any new member go into this sub forum. If the thread then gets more than, oh, ten non-OP responses, it gets auto-promoted into the subforum category the OP would have already chosen.

3. Create a thread start and/or post count threshold beyond which senior members can:

a. Turn off (or leave) all banner and sig line advertizing in their forum views as they wish.

b. Have post deletion powers within threads that they start.

Now, this will never happen because items 1 and 2 would dramatically decrease the traffic count for SF. In particular, the vast preponderance of threads in the new member forum would wither on the vine. Item 3 will never happen because it favors content creators over content consumers.

But, it would make for a much better forum for the active participants.
post #9792 of 15052
Quote:
Originally Posted by F. Corbera View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
If SF was a once bar, and now is a bar with bar rules, then it also now a bar full of advertisements and where at any time, one of the dudes on a stool next to you is there to sell you something. (SF is also a bar, it would seem, where it you can't drink a G&T in the scotch section, and in which beers are forbidden in the Frozen Mocktail section. And sir, please pay for your drink before you leave your section.)
It is a bar in which all conversations, habits, and behaviors are recorded, sometime surveilled, and then essentially packaged as commercial inducement.
That inducement has to do with volume and throughout: advertise and sell on Styleforum because you reach a large "market." Someone searches "seven fold tie" on Google, clicks the SF link, and only sees a period?
Outrageous. We simply can't have that.
"Large" in this case means, by and large, eyeballs. Each one counts the same. Since so many of these are the drive-by posters, the style of "journalism" and moderation on the site is geared toward that front, in my opinion.
Why are the minor, peninsular sub-forums of SF deemed more tolerable than the main (by activity) MC forum? Is there a lot of selling and marketing of wares in the What Did You Eat Last Night thread? No? No bacon being hawked? Are there a lot of Google-searchers coming in asking, "What, exactly, is salt and can I use it at a wedding?" No?
Keep in mind that at the top, there is the serene feeling that nothing is wrong. SF today, the story goes, is just like SF ten, eight, five, three years ago. There is no car crash, folks, move along.
The type of fixes that I have in mind are impossible because they require the reversal of the emerging business model of SF, which is quantity-driven.

You have articulated what I and I believe many of us here feel. But the fact remains that if we don't contribute monetarily to the upkeep of the site, then the owners must do what they must do. 'Tis sad but reality. I'm not for it but I totally understand. And, now that social media has taken off, there are countless blogs & tumblers and whatyoucallits to contend with.

Fact: If I and a few others want to keep the Shoe Pr0n thread exactly about that, true shoe pr0n, but 99% want it to be a WSAIWT or WVMHAS&HFST thread, what do you think the owners will err in favor of? It's a losing battle, friend (and I use that term loosely)

smile.gif
post #9793 of 15052
Quote:
Originally Posted by F. Corbera View Post

Why are the minor, peninsular sub-forums of SF deemed more tolerable than the main (by activity) MC forum? Is there a lot of selling and marketing of wares in the What Did You Eat Last Night thread? No? No bacon being hawked? Are there a lot of Google-searchers coming in asking, "What, exactly, is salt and can I use it at a wedding?" No?

lol8[1].gif This made me spit water all over my keyboard. Thanks.
post #9794 of 15052
Quote:
Originally Posted by emptym View Post

As the past couple pages have shown, being a mod is tricky business.
How do you balance the needs of those who feel like they have the right to say whatever they want to say with those who feel they have the right only to hear what they want to hear?
How do you enforce sensible rules while making sensible exceptions, without making those who aren't exceptional feel you're being insensible?

I don't envy you...

You have a very difficult task because members will react differently to snark, irony, jokes ,personal attacks/insults or just disagreements..

Some people are thick skinned when others react very strongly to certain stimuli...

The internet is not also the best medium to carry snark and irony , opening comments to various interpretations transforming misinterpretated banter into full blown verbal battles.

I'm not the reporting type because I do think contacting you must be a last resort...

Mods can be as strict as they want as long as they are perceived as being fair..

You have done a very good job to let the snark /banter flowing..

I'm waiting to see how the new mods will adapt to their new positions and reconcile being members and mod...
post #9795 of 15052
one way i began reconciling it was taking you off ignore.
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