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The WAYWT Discussion Thread - Page 5395  

post #80911 of 117677
Quote:
Originally Posted by thewho13 View Post

It's my mistake that I wasn't more clear: my post wasn't intended to "call out" lemmywinks; his remark just seemed to recall elements of this forum's oft-repeated, off-the-cuff dismissals of an entire aesthetic, without necessarily being explicit about it. Of course, that might not have been his intent, just as it wasn't my intent to call him out. In any case, I read that post and thought it would be worthwhile to explain something that has bothered me for a long time whenever SF gets to talking about #menswear stuff. More spoiler'd ramblings (Click to show)
Regarding the terms we use to describe the appeals of various aesthetics, they will inevitably become clichés. There's nothing wrong with using them (which is why I wouldn't go as far as to say that I "hate" them); it's only when they are thrown around without qualification, when they're used so indiscriminately, that they lose even the pretension to intelligently and accurately describe. This might seem pretty unilluminating, but the point is that #menswear descriptors—like "casual," "timeless," "classy"—only sound stupid when they're used stupidly. Same applies for the words we throw around here. If they're going to be used, then it really helps to attempt to unpack what inspires the use of such words, otherwise they're just empty signifiers.
As far as "feeling one's aesthetics preferences are better than others,'" that's an inevitable consequence of taste. I'm not trying to eliminate a natural human response; that's a pointless and thoughtless project. But, as you yourself have said, we shouldn't be dicks about it. That's all really. I said that "the air of superiority" is what bothers me. I can't police another person's head, or my own for that matter. But speaking what's in one's head without a filter because one believes his/her taste is inherently valuable (they're not; they're just as contingent on the calendar year as they are contingent on where you live) bespeaks a particularly disturbing level of narcissism, and reasonably speaking no one is going to put up with that. I hope that clears my original post up a bit more.

If anyone ever asks me why I hang out on SF I'm giving them this exchange. If they don't like it--irrespective of content-- we probably can't be friends.

I like #menswear, the way I like certain foods. Not essential to my happiness, but an enjoyable addition.
post #80912 of 117677
thewho13 you seem like a smart and nice guy but you need to drop the academic english major schtick. it makes reading your thoughtful posts unbearable - the mark of a gifted writer (and a gifted intellectual) is the ability to convey ideas simply though easy to understand language, not the ability to get lost within the convolutions of your own jargon and endless qualifications.

also if you're really torn up about subjectivity you need to read some Nietzsche. while clothing is subjective in an absolute sense, it's not subjective within the confines of this website -- we, as a community, have come together to create a standard aesthetic and, through our acceptance and rejection of different outfits and posters, perpetuate this aesthetic.
post #80913 of 117677
Quote:
Originally Posted by oboy_oboy View Post

If anyone ever asks me why I hang out on SF...

 

You actually tell people that you hang out on Style Forum? eh.gif

post #80914 of 117677
Purely hypothetically speaking of course. No one knows. No. One.
post #80915 of 117677
I sold some shoes I had listed to someone in person the other day, and we met in my department's graduate lounge. after he left everyone looked at me like I was crazy. if only they knew..
post #80916 of 117677
wait, so teger, by his own admission, in not a gifted writer?

wink.gif
post #80917 of 117677
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDHagg View Post

You actually tell people that you hang out on Style Forum? eh.gif

you dont? srsly, thats even worse.
post #80918 of 117677
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teger View Post

thewho13 you seem like a smart and nice guy but you need to drop the academic english major schtick. it makes reading your thoughtful posts unbearable - the mark of a gifted writer (and a gifted intellectual) is the ability to convey ideas simply though easy to understand language, not the ability to get lost within the convolutions of your own jargon and endless qualifications.
also if you're really torn up about subjectivity you need to read some Nietzsche. while clothing is subjective in an absolute sense, it's not subjective within the confines of this website -- we, as a community, have come together to create a standard aesthetic and, through our acceptance and rejection of different outfits and posters, perpetuate this aesthetic.


"So in simpler english, you say we have rules here so you should follow them. I reply, your rules are just your rules because you want to insist they are, which doesn't make then any more right because there are more than one of you insisting on its value as true/objective." - That would be the reasoning along which why saying community would not really deal with thewhos objection.

Wordier nietzsche referencing answer below
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Nietzsche is read pretty subjectively. I doubt if thewho will find anything in there that will really change his perspective. You could argue that the communal creation of ethical norms is the nature of standard formation and so within that community you are bound to it and it has some sort of proscriptive value. Or that Nietzsche's analysis is actually just descriptive and that while there is no real metaphysical force to the ethical norm the community acts that way. The community, much like anything/one else that calls upon metaphysical justifications, is without any ground to stand on but has its methods to create some sort of illusion of justification (force or some absolute like God)

And this is without speaking to the idea that "community" is a weak philosophical concept. I dont like to reference nozick but he has a point. There is no community monster that holds a collective consensus, just individuals who at time (and not unanimously) agree to certain things

Edited by Benesyed - 12/2/12 at 12:41am
post #80919 of 117677
Quote:
Originally Posted by brad-t View Post

I really wish I'd bought the crazy lace KVA when they were super cheap. Damn.
I'll sell you a pair BNIB for $400
post #80920 of 117677
I thought the reply by thewho was brilliant and perfectly digestible reading. Less tedious than many teger posts.

PS: the crowd is untruth
post #80921 of 117677
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teger View Post

thewho13 you seem like a smart and nice guy but you need to drop the academic english major schtick. it makes reading your thoughtful posts unbearable - the mark of a gifted writer (and a gifted intellectual) is the ability to convey ideas simply though easy to understand language, not the ability to get lost within the convolutions of your own jargon and endless qualifications.
also if you're really torn up about subjectivity you need to read some Nietzsche. while clothing is subjective in an absolute sense, it's not subjective within the confines of this website -- we, as a community, have come together to create a standard aesthetic and, through our acceptance and rejection of different outfits and posters, perpetuate this aesthetic.


I'm really tired of reading complaints like this. I understand that you're not trying to antagonize me—and I'm aware that this is an effort to "help" me, or something; but I think you're projecting a significant amount onto the tone of my posts. Neither reeks of jargon or technical diction. Anything that might even happen to fall into those categories (or anything that might even obliquely signal "academic" writing) was spoiler'd. No one has to read that. No one's hand is forced to put up with it if they don't want to.

But as far as subjectivity goes, it's unclear to me why you think I'm so torn up about it. (To be honest, that comment just left me really confused.) In any case, I'm not the guy who just told someone on the internet to better understand subjectivity by reading Nietzsche. If you ask me, that is some pretentious, academic bs. You don't know if I've read Nietzsche (full disclosure: I haven't); and you don't know if I've read other shit that is not Nietzsche, yet happens to deal similarly with subjectivity (I have). But quit making assumptions about me, especially as they pertain to how you can "help" me. Every time you've tried to do so has been extremely condescending.

I'm aware this reads as pretty agitated and maybe even aggressive (I feel a little guilty about that), but you really need to stop telling me over and over again how to write posts on a silly message board on the internet. Posts like these read as if you're speaking down to me because essentially you are. If you don't like how I write, then simply choose to not read what I write.
Edited by thewho13 - 12/2/12 at 1:46am
post #80922 of 117677
Thread Starter 
Acquire George Orwell, disregard poofty English:
https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/orwell46.htm
post #80923 of 117677
,
Edited by thewho13 - 12/2/12 at 1:47am
post #80924 of 117677
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eason View Post

Acquire George Orwell, disregard poofty English:
https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/orwell46.htm

This is not relevant to the conversation.
post #80925 of 117677
why do people on SF always jump on the first opportunity to prove their intelligence as if it really matters.
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