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The WAYWT Discussion Thread - Page 5151

post #77251 of 116132
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missoni/merz b/geller/cp
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Missoni & Gelato! molto bello Italiano
post #77252 of 116132
I think like Ben said, this seems to be more of a function of Western ideals of masculine dress than anything else. The male traditional costume from my mother's place in Nigeria involves a long wrap around "skirt" and a lace see-through long shirt. To my eyes, none of the men in this outfit look "feminine" in the slightest. In the case of Thamanyah he is just re-purposing his own traditional outfits, he is not trying to put men in dresses. Fashion designers just seem to be drawing from a wider pool of references which to my own eye is great. It is interesting that Kingjulien believes that shah is the only one who looks good in hakamas, I wonder whether that is because shah's ethnicity makes it seem more appropriate to him on some subconscious level.

I would probably have gone for a looser and longer tank myself, but in my head I think Parker's outfit would look way better in motion, especially in the side shot.
post #77253 of 116132
Quote:
Originally Posted by grizzlybear View Post

not sure if this is really you lol laugh.gif

nah I am just showing u guys what a real man dress is.
post #77254 of 116132

Today.

 

post #77255 of 116132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivwri View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

I think like Ben said, this seems to be more of a function of Western ideals of masculine dress than anything else. The male traditional costume from my mother's place in Nigeria involves a long wrap around "skirt" and a lace see-through long shirt. To my eyes, none of the men in this outfit look "feminine" in the slightest. In the case of Thamanyah he is just re-purposing his own traditional outfits, he is not trying to put men in dresses. Fashion designers just seem to be drawing from a wider pool of references which to my own eye is great. It is interesting that Kingjulien believes that shah is the only one who looks good in hakamas, I wonder whether that is because shah's ethnicity makes it seem more appropriate to him on some subconscious level.
I would probably have gone for a looser and longer tank myself, but in my head I think Parker's outfit would look way better in motion, especially in the side shot.

 

There are some other examples - I think you've had some good outfits with them, and shuit and heirloom on SZ have done similar looks that were really well-done.  I think it's less a function of ethnicity and more one of (perceived) comfort - if you wear skinny jeans 28 days out of the month and skirt-like hakamas the other 2-3, there's a disharmony there, especially if none of the other cultural elements (Japanese, African, whatever) of what's being referenced are present.  If you're not Nigerian, don't live in Nigeria, don't really have much other interest in Nigerian culture, and dress Western 95% of the time, wearing that outfit you described every once in awhile is odd; to me, anyway, obviously a lot of people don't agree.  Anyway, even if I think it doesn't work more often than not I think it's cool that you guys are trying it.

 

edit - though I guess you could ask "how do you know those things aren't there" and the answer is I don't, I'm just basing this on what I can see.  


Edited by KingJulien - 10/3/12 at 6:50am
post #77256 of 116132

 

 

eh.gif

post #77257 of 116132
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingJulien View Post

There are some other examples - I think you've had some good outfits with them, and shuit and heirloom on SZ have done similar looks that were really well-done.  I think it's less a function of ethnicity and more one of (perceived) comfort - if you wear skinny jeans 28 days out of the month and skirt-like hakamas the other 2-3, there's a disharmony there, especially if none of the other cultural elements (Japanese, African, whatever) of what's being referenced are present.  If you're not Nigerian, don't live in Nigeria, don't really have much other interest in Nigerian culture, and dress Western 95% of the time, wearing that outfit you described every once in awhile is odd; to me, anyway, obviously a lot of people don't agree.  Anyway, even if I think it doesn't work more often than not I think it's cool that you guys are trying it.

edit - though I guess you could ask "how do you know those things aren't there" and the answer is I don't, I'm just basing this on what I can see.  

What the fuck are we allowed to dress in, then? this is a pretty narrow view of fashion, and of global culture in general. There's a difference between saying "well, I think that's beautiful but i live in the Bible Belt and I'll get my fucking ass kicked by blue collar types or oil derrick workers on the way home from work and it's just not worth it" - which is at least honest - and saying that you shouldn't wear something because it's "not from your culture." Or whatever the fuck sort of half-assed intellectualism you're trying to put together over there. Maybe your words aren't coming out right, but right now you sound like an idiot. Do you mean that people should understand what they're wearing? Because that would make a bit more sense, to a limited extent, but then we might as well have another discussion of hipsterism and the random appropriation of cultural signifiers, which is perhaps more relevant, but I don't know that we can handle it at this point. If you live in a climate that supports it, I'm not sure why you wouldn't just wear what you like. I'd feel like a cock wearing a kandora around a place where it's culturally significant, but reading through any expat forum will show you that it's done.

It's particularly amusing that this discussion revolves around Parker's wardrobe choices - to all appearances, he lives on a coast in a tolerant, global, fairly cosmopolitan city and embraces what he has described as a "coastal" style. Considering he seems to wear Yohji pretty damn regularly, I don't really understand the complaint. I'm not seeing any problem with that. Even if it were Robbie who had all of a sudden decided to wear a rick skirt, I don't see a problem with changing things up if you feel like it.
post #77258 of 116132
There's always consequences to how you dress -- good or bad. In the US, even the worst consequences aren't particularly bad (someone thinks you're gay or less of you), but in other cultures and societies the consequences can be much harsher, even life-threatening. People on fashion sites always try to argue that you should be able to where whatever you want anywhere and if you don't want to it's your own personal hangups, but this is only in very select segments of the world.
post #77259 of 116132
^^


Teger, someone "thinking that you're gay" is hardly the worst thing that can happen. Shit like Matthew Shepard (who didn't wear skirts as far as I know) happens all the time. Trans* people get mugged, murdered, and raped all the time.

You're bringing up an entirely new discussion when you move from discussing wether or not a fit with a skirt (or skirt-like pant—like Parker's) can look cool (or "fashionable") to discussing the social consequences of actually wearing that fit.

No one here said anything amounting to if you wear that fit you'll get beat up!—people simply expressed their reactions to the fit. Some people liked it, some people didn't, and enough people said dumb things that warranted intervention. Calling attention to those who might suffer in the "third world"—O those poor people whose survival we mustn't harm with our fashion choices—is not at all what's at stake here. Come on man, you should be far more attentive to this.
post #77260 of 116132
fyi the conceptual forest is genderless so if you want to wear stuff without starting a 3 page discussion about what white cis males consider correct gender politics then just put all your fits between a ~*~*Conceptual Forest Shroud*~*~ and nothing can go wrong smile.gif

parker that didn't look so good with the supergas or tank, imo
post #77261 of 116132
Quote:
Originally Posted by thewho13 View Post

^^
Teger, someone "thinking that you're gay" is hardly the worst thing that can happen. Shit like Matthew Shepard (who didn't wear skirts as far as I know) happens all the time. Trans* people get mugged, murdered, and raped all the time.
You're bringing up an entirely new discussion when you move from discussing wether or not a fit with a skirt (or skirt-like pant—like Parker's) can look cool (or "fashionable") to discussing the social consequences of actually wearing that fit.
No one here said anything amounting to if you wear that fit you'll get beat up!—people simply expressed their reactions to the fit. Some people liked it, some people didn't, and enough people said dumb things that warranted intervention. Calling attention to those who might suffer in the "third world"—O those poor people whose survival we mustn't harm with our fashion choices—is not at all what's at stake here. Come on man, you should be far more attentive to this.

what? a question of stakes (and consequences) is fundamentally part of this discussion -- you can't discuss gender roles in only the intellectually abstract.. we are not merely discussing wether or a not a skirt fit can ever be fashionable (or at least, I hope we've moved past that, because as I said that's a stupid thing to say), but instead why Parker's look generated so much commentary and how acceptable men wearing feminine outfits is in general.

also, I don't think your fashion choice can 'harm the third world', i think the fashion choices of those in the third world have consequences that are greater than those of us in the first world. treating the third world as only a proxy of the first world without its own independent fashion community is redonk.
post #77262 of 116132
I don't believe you understood my point...
post #77263 of 116132

You make good points synth.  I am not saying Parker is or should be uncomfortable wearing that; in fact I'm almost positive he's not.

 

Your example with the kandora is actually exactly what I was trying to say.  Should you be able to wear hakama pants or a flowy maxi skirt or a yarmulke if you want to? Of course.  But in a thread where we post outfits and subjective opinions about those outfits, it's also fine to say that I don't think it looks good without trampling anyone's right to do as they please.  I don't think it's inappropriate or offensive, I just think it often looks bad.

 

I'm talking about that look in general by the way, I don't want to sound like I'm bashing Parker over multiple posts because he's one of the nicest guys on the forum.

post #77264 of 116132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivwri View Post

I think like Ben said, this seems to be more of a function of Western ideals of masculine dress than anything else. The male traditional costume from my mother's place in Nigeria involves a long wrap around "skirt" and a lace see-through long shirt. To my eyes, none of the men in this outfit look "feminine" in the slightest. In the case of Thamanyah he is just re-purposing his own traditional outfits, he is not trying to put men in dresses. Fashion designers just seem to be drawing from a wider pool of references which to my own eye is great. It is interesting that Kingjulien believes that shah is the only one who looks good in hakamas, I wonder whether that is because shah's ethnicity makes it seem more appropriate to him on some subconscious level.
I would probably have gone for a looser and longer tank myself, but in my head I think Parker's outfit would look way better in motion, especially in the side shot.

actually, to be completely honest, i think kingjulien is just being dumb as usual. though, to be fair, parker's hakama fit was a miss for me, too.
post #77265 of 116132
Can someone from the UK explain to me how you have cream tea without looking like a complete fucking moron? You put everything onto your scone with the spoon, right?

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