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The WAYWT Discussion Thread - Page 5149  

post #77221 of 117670
Fair enough. But much of what you said in your previous post (about lines shifting, things becoming more acceptable, living in an age where we can just judge things based strictly on "aesthetics" without recognizing the conditions that always already politicize any discussion about aesthetics) is just plain false.

Sure, Rick can put out a line of leather skirts aimed at cisgender males. Sure, people in the fashion world might react positively to that. But that hardly speaks to the general public, and such an example is just a peculiar sort of tokenism. Saying an outfit is too feminine is homophobic (or, more accurately, heterosexist) because, even though one might intend to speak just about aesthetics, such comments come across as regulatory given the ever-present specters of idealized masculinity and femininity.
Edited by thewho13 - 10/2/12 at 10:16pm
post #77222 of 117670
the fact that we're even discussing parker's outfit at all and not stringing him up and lynching him for being a queer is a sign of progress. change takes time, but it also builds momentum. what exists in an aesthetic niche today is in H&M 5 years from now.
post #77223 of 117670

It looks bad not because its a skirt or Hakama, but because its an ugly skirt.

post #77224 of 117670
I like skirt ("hakama") but it needs to be balanced with something different than a black tanktop.
post #77225 of 117670
Holy shit that's great I should have thought about that instead. Hey Parker, you're lucky we didn't mob lynch you.

Criticisms like smash's make more sense to me: rather than knee-jerk squealing ew a man in a skirt, at least there's some comment on the clothing being worn. (I personally think a looser top would have looked better, but that's me.)
post #77226 of 117670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teger View Post

what exists in an aesthetic niche today is in H&M 5 years from now.

I don't buy it. A dude in a skirt is transgressive, and will be five years from now. Like you said, women adopted menswear for practical, and sometimes symbolic reasons. What practical reason does any guy have to wear a skirt? There just aren't the same avenues towards acceptance. And I would talk about how we value masculine vs. feminine here but I don't want to bore you.

And for the record I like hakamas and yohji generally, but not in Parker's fit. The proportions seems off, needs some more volume on top or something. I'm indifferent about the print, I think it could work in the way those Ann D floral prints do.
post #77227 of 117670
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Fellow Linguist View Post

I don't buy it. A dude in a skirt is transgressive, and will be five years from now. Like you said, women adopted menswear for practical, and sometimes symbolic reasons. What practical reason does any guy have to wear a skirt? There just aren't the same avenues towards acceptance. And I would talk about how we value masculine vs. feminine here but I don't want to bore you.

apparently men wearing skirts didn't need to enter the conversation through politics or practicality; instead it's doing so directly on the runway. it might not be 5 years from now, but i think rick's collections signal a definite shift towards a change in acceptable menswear. i think a better question for discussion though is why is androgyny always vaguely masculine?
post #77228 of 117670
Quote:
Originally Posted by thewho13 View Post

Holy shit that's great I should have thought about that instead. Hey Parker, you're lucky we didn't mob lynch you.
Criticisms like smash's make more sense to me: rather than knee-jerk squealing ew a man in a skirt, at least there's some comment on the clothing being worn. (I personally think a looser top would have looked better, but that's me.)

you laugh, but this discussion is a consequence of a lot of recent social and cultural changes
post #77229 of 117670
about 1/4 of my all male high school were sarongs to school.

It didn't look feminine at all.
post #77230 of 117670
Look, all I said was that Parker looked like an old lesbo. Not that he looked like a tranny. Lets just take it down a notch here people.
post #77231 of 117670

Probably would work better if it were like more structured and a tad shorter like the one marc jacobs(its marc jacobs right?) is wearing.  I actually quite like that fit, couldn't pull it off though.

post #77232 of 117670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teger View Post

i think a better question for discussion though is why is androgyny always vaguely masculine?

Is it?

ANDREJ-PEJIC-DOSSIER.jpg

As for RO, I lean towards thewho's side of things. It seems faddish, and without wide-spread acceptance and accessibility I can't imagine it having any lasting impact.

also teg you should join the social justice / white knights / philosophy 281 team. We can't be real progressives until we're all preoccupied with pedantic infighting.
post #77233 of 117670
In Pakistan and India lungi is a very common article of clothing for men. Its pretty much a skirt. Now that doesn't make me less or more heterosexist but femininity and skirts are not necessarily intimately tied.

For me its not really the skirt but the tank. The skirt may or may not have a bleh pattern but i think that requires a better top to really tease out

Also this is a lungi




Maybe you are all just racist biggrin.gif
post #77234 of 117670
Rick is so far on the "avant-garde" side of menswear that your typical menswear enthusiasts won't be talking about that in the mainstream for a looooooong time. Plenty of menswear enthusiasts probably don't even know Yohji either. (These dudes practically masturbate to Mad Men reruns and camo jackets.)

And again, it's not like greater acceptance in the high-end fashion industry is a sign of "progress" or "change." In fact, trying to justify wearing a skirt (or something skirt-like) that cost designer dollars to someone who isn't equally sartorially inclined would only be more self-incriminating.

Teger, you're conflating a very minor instance of and ostensible trajectory toward acceptance in a niche market of eccentric weirdos with the general public's understanding of transgression. The two really don't match up very well at all.
post #77235 of 117670
I have no idea what "recent social and cultural changes" prompted this prolonged diatribe regarding men in skirts. It's not going to take the world by storm. It looks bad. You can't justify it with gender studies thesis length posts, no matter how much you may try.

Hakamas are not skirts, but they still look bad on 99.9% of people who wear them. You are not practicing aikido in turn of the century Japan.

This self absorbed gender shit is like the fly that lurks around your room but always flits out of reach when you try to kill it. Then when you assume it's left and settle back down in your chair and turn on the TV it buzzes by again.
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