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The WAYWT Discussion Thread - Page 5148  

post #77206 of 117666
it's a long skirt..
post #77207 of 117666
its called a pant...
post #77208 of 117666
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionheart Biker View Post

If the hakamas were black, then this discussion wouldn´t have even started.

would we be talking about SoCal instead? confused.gif
post #77209 of 117666
Hakama people don't know the difference between a skirt and pants?
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
reads better with an Italian accent
post #77210 of 117666
Skirt or pant it looks cool. Women can wear "traditional menswear" and it can be cool; men can wear "traditional womenswear" and it can be cool. Unless someone has a stated desire to wear something "masculine," it doesn't really make sense to judge their outfit on that criteria.
post #77211 of 117666
Quote:
Originally Posted by thewho13 View Post

Skirt or pant it looks cool. Women can wear "traditional menswear" and it can be cool; men can wear "traditional womenswear" and it can be cool. Unless someone has a stated desire to wear something "masculine," it doesn't really make sense to judge their outfit on that criteria.

do you own a skirt?
post #77212 of 117666
Quote:
Originally Posted by thewho13 View Post

Skirt or pant it looks cool. Women can wear "traditional menswear" and it can be cool; men can wear "traditional womenswear" and it can be cool. Unless someone has a stated desire to wear something "masculine," it doesn't really make sense to judge their outfit on that criteria.

women's studies 101: gender norms cut both ways!!!

ps: bonus points if someone posts that the disparity in cross-gender dress is a consequence of the power of the patriarchy
post #77213 of 117666
@ Parker: need to show some calves and ink on your arm

62ec606a146b9aa7cc13b32192e31d8d.jpg
post #77214 of 117666
^^^ If you're asking that question because you assume my indifference to what one wears—as it relates to his/her/their expressed gender—must necessarily mean that I practice the same habit in dressing myself, then your question doesn't even merit a response.
Edited by thewho13 - 10/2/12 at 10:15pm
post #77215 of 117666
Quote:
Originally Posted by thewho13 View Post

If you're asking that question because you assume my indifference to what one wears—as it relates to his/her/their expressed gender—must necessarily mean that I practice the same habit in dressing myself, then your question doesn't even merit a response.

the biggest issue is that your complaint is in many ways becoming moot. rick owens is walking skirts and dresses down the runway in his men's collections, which signals - at least on some level - a shift towards a greater acceptance of men dressing feminine. also if you study the history of women wearing men's clothing, you'll notice that historically it was done as an overt political statement or out of practicality (hard to plow a field in a dress), not out of an aesthetic choice. the fact that today aesthetic concerns define this coice means that there's been a fundamental shift towards less restrictive and normative definitions of appropriate gendered clothing.

but i also think in a greater sense that pointing out gender norms is meaningless. so what if it's all preconditioned, behavioral thinking that's a consequence of our upbringing or the vestiges of a fading patriarchy? taste is still taste even if it's relative. and i don't think parker's skirt is the frontline of the gender wars.

reflectively decrying any comment about an outfit being too feminine as misogynistic, homophobic and using it as provocation to launch into a boring conversation about gender norm is just as juvenile and limiting as automatically branding any skirt fit as girly.
post #77216 of 117666
White knighting intellectual masturbation aside, it still looks bad.
post #77217 of 117666
Teger, take a step back. I said that men can wear "traditionally feminine" clothing, and it can look cool. You'll have to point out the moment where I elevated Parker's fit to the status of Frontline of the Gender War.

Everything else you said was stupid.
post #77218 of 117666
Quote:
Originally Posted by thewho13 View Post

Teger, take a step back. I said that men can wear "traditionally feminine" clothing, and it can look cool. You'll have to point out the moment where I elevated Parker's fit to the status of Frontline of the Gender War.
Everything else you said was stupid.

oh i misread your post. my apologies. but my point is still right -- im tired of this descending into boring, dated discussion about gender norms every time someone posts a skirt fit and gets some backlash.

and parker's outfit is bad for lots of reason. the most obvious is that print is ugly.
post #77219 of 117666
Fair enough. But much of what you said in your previous post (about lines shifting, things becoming more acceptable, living in an age where we can just judge things based strictly on "aesthetics" without recognizing the conditions that always already politicize any discussion about aesthetics) is just plain false.

Sure, Rick can put out a line of leather skirts aimed at cisgender males. Sure, people in the fashion world might react positively to that. But that hardly speaks to the general public, and such an example is just a peculiar sort of tokenism. Saying an outfit is too feminine is homophobic (or, more accurately, heterosexist) because, even though one might intend to speak just about aesthetics, such comments come across as regulatory given the ever-present specters of idealized masculinity and femininity.
Edited by thewho13 - 10/2/12 at 10:16pm
post #77220 of 117666
the fact that we're even discussing parker's outfit at all and not stringing him up and lynching him for being a queer is a sign of progress. change takes time, but it also builds momentum. what exists in an aesthetic niche today is in H&M 5 years from now.
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