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The WAYWT Discussion Thread - Page 4708  

post #70606 of 117668
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdl203 View Post

I think between johanm and the self-critique, most of the fit points have been mentioned. The fit at the main points of the body isn't too bad really - there are a few diagonal and horizontal folds that indicates problems (prob a lower shoulder and upper back posture) that should certainly have been fix with 8 fittings (I still cannot believe this btw, never heard of this).
My point when i say that it's bad or that the uniqlo looks better is less about minutiae of fit and more about the overall look and proportions. Johanm calls it styling but, really, what is the point of a bespoke tailor if he doesn't have a good eye and cuts shoulders, lapels, length and all the lines to fit the specific customer and bring in a harmonious balance? How can he let him leave with skinny short lapels that don't jibe at all with the slightly extended padded shoulders and extra long sleeves? Even if the tailor accepts to cut such skinny lapels (which stand out), he should then bring the whole look together with coherent stylistic choices (e.g. narrow shoulders, cropped everything, a la TB). I look at the suit and it just strikes me as looking odd. Odd in a bad way, that's all, no hate. It is silly to call all these things merely stylistic preferences, these are all important choices that can make a garment look either good or bad - sure, one can prefer to look bad, but that doesn't change the fact that these stylistic choices are, in fact, not good.

I concur with your view on objective problems with styling...though while striving to take a relativistic perspective when surfing SW&D

I would note, for the sake of discussion, that cdhagg's suit is not miles away from this Raf one posted by impolyt:

480

The differences I observe are (i) tighter collar, (ii) slimmer trousers, (iii) slightly higher buttoning point, and (iv) it's worn by a Raf Simons runway model and not a maligned SF poster
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teger View Post

it's just strange to me that cdhagg says that some of the issues are 'his fault', as if he was the one designing a suit. if you're paying a bespoke premium, you shouldn't be nit-picking minute details about the fit...

You'd be surprised, even the world's most renowned bespoke tailors don't always nail those minute details:

http://thelondonlounge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8227

http://thelondonlounge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=6784
post #70607 of 117668
Quote:
Originally Posted by StanleyVanBuren View Post

sorry for the MC thread derailment, but since we're here (and since I'm getting better input here than in MC anyway)...
Warning: MC SVB talk (Click to show)


Your points are all dead-on and I really appreciate the detailed critique. I feel like the fit of the suit is decent enough but your points are going to help me really nail down the details.

I think these shoes are an improvement from before and it's starting to click for me what you & a lot of other guys were saying about going for sleeker lasts. These are much sleeker than my clunky American wingtips but I agree I can go further still. I'm always open to suggestions (but I'm not always "kopping" so just don't expect it to change overnight).

I also agree the quarters look bad. To some extent, that may in part be my pose in this shot. This is an Epaulet suit (obviously?) and I have the same exact jacket in the navy hopsack. For some reason, the blazer never has this problem even though it's made to the exact same measurements. Different fabrics make up differently, I guess. I also think the fact that I wasn't wearing a belt here may have contributed. A belt creates a little more bulk and fills the jacket space around the waist pushing the quarters out a little more. I need to wear and photograph this suit again but I think you're ultimately right that there can be some fine tuning on this point.

I really don't like how the pants look in this picture. I think what I need to do is have the seat and thighs taken in a bit. They are already hemmed pretty short, they're just sagging a bit in the above shot. They should be the right length to achieve the "no break" look. Here's an older shot of the pants without the jacket:

214x408px-LL-7d460a13_IMG_1101.jpeg

Same shoes. So in this one, conversely, I'm probably wearing them a little too high. But I think this shows that the length is right but they can be narrowed from the knee up. Let me know your thoughts.

And finally, stuff like gorge and button stance are out of my control on this, but you're probably right nonetheless. If I ever go bespoke, hopefully those items would get sorted out as well.


Agree, yes... see above.


Sleeve pitch has always been a problem for me. I have a very upright posture that I guess isn't typical. Nearly every picture of me wearing a suit has this upper arm folding visible. But yeah, I've resigned to not care if OTR items do this. Like you said, it's far to complex and expensive to fix, and it's not really noticeable unless I stand perfectly still.



This is a great look that I would absolutely feel comfortable in too. I will look into Raf in the future.

Anyway, this was a very useful critique. The only thing on which I really disagree is that I do not have a tiny head, dammit!

Keep looking towards sleek Italianate lasts. You're slim and tall, a good match for you. See the opposite above in Moo's fit, where a his shoes don't go with his body profile well - Moo would be better off wearing American style shoes like Aldens.

As for sleeve pitch, it's part posture, but it's also just the fact that you're skinny, and you don't have any lats to fill out the back of the jacket and secondarily, not much in triceps to hit anything in the sleeve, and so I feel the ruffles from the back of the sleeve towards the sleevehead are just pointing the direction to wherever the suit is cut bigger than it needs to be. OTR is calculated for someone in the middle of the road, maybe 30 BMI, or 25 if it's a slightly style-conscious piece - you're probably way into the teens BMI-wise, there are few patterns to account for someone with a larger shoulder/half chest ratio (approaching 1.0X and above). Your shoulders front or back, measured across, are probably around half of your chest circumference, no? If one wasn't slim, and just 'normal' - their shoulders would be slightly smaller than their half-chest, the ratio would flip a little, (.9X) - I am just making this ratio thing up as an explanation but it's fairly true and you can test it to see. knucks would be like, 0.8X or even lower, possibly. OTR suits are usually somewhere in the .9xxx range, a bit south of where a skinny guy needs it.
post #70608 of 117668
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teger View Post

if my shorts are the vagina monologues, what are these?
iw1wkg.jpg
schindler's list?

ahahahahahahahaaa
post #70609 of 117668
Quote:
Originally Posted by johanm View Post


The fit on this is, on the whole, good. Some nits: the collar fits too loosely around the neck, the upper back is tight, and the sleeve pitch is slightly off, resulting in rippling around the tricep.
Stylistically, not my taste. Jacket a bit too long, button point a bit too low, lapels way too skinny and do not roll from the buttoning point, trousers not cuffed, and the contrast buttonholes are a facepalm.gif Also, I prefer a more relaxed shoulder construction.
It's odd that it took 7-8 fittings. Even Huntsman / Richard Anderson / Maurice Sedwell, known for the most fittings on the Row, do about 4-5. Most do 2-3. Anderson & Sheppard do 1-2.

 

The fit is actually good.  You can tell he made several personal adjustments, but that is fine and sort-of the point of custom made suits.  If it is true Bespoke (and done w/o a preexisting pattern) he will have all the pattern changes to reference to address everyone's critiques.

post #70610 of 117668
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Moo View Post

How Jewish? Jewish Jewish or just Jewish?

197

"Ya know, like Fiddler on The Roof, cast or audience?".
post #70611 of 117668
Quote:
Originally Posted by johanm View Post

I would note, for the sake of discussion, that cdhagg's suit is not miles away from this Raf one posted by impolyt:
480
The differences I observe are (i) tighter collar, (ii) slimmer trousers, (iii) slightly higher buttoning point, and (iv) it's worn by a Raf Simons runway model and not a maligned SF poster

Seriously? I see here a rather avant-guardist interpretation of the suit that is a crossover between lounge suite and cutaway coat. The jacket is probably 3-4" longer than typical, with fronts and quarters cut similarly to a cutaway coat, while the back doesnt seem to be long like tails. The whole line of the suit is extremely coherent to me (I won't take out the MS paint red lines but I see a lot of well aligned lines, including a perfectly symmetrical X from notch to quarters), while at the same time being quite unusual. That one certainly looks odd to me too, but not in a bad way. I quite like it, even though I couldn't see myself wearing it
post #70612 of 117668
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teger View Post

if my shorts are the vagina monologues, what are these?
iw1wkg.jpg
schindler's list?

i agree with gdl203

that black suit will be highly noticeable if wearing in office environment
post #70613 of 117668
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdl203 View Post

Seriously? I see here a rather avant-guardist interpretation of the suit that is a crossover between lounge suite and cutaway coat. The jacket is probably 3-4" longer than typical, with fronts and quarters cut similarly to a cutaway coat, while the back doesnt seem to be long like tails. The whole line of the suit is extremely coherent to me (I won't take out the MS paint red lines but I see a lot of well aligned lines, including a perfectly symmetrical X from notch to quarters), while at the same time being quite unusual. That one certainly looks odd to me too, but not in a bad way. I quite like it, even though I couldn't see myself wearing it

Yeah, I think that's the correct interpretation of the length / cutaway styling of the Raf jacket. I was kind of mentally treating it like a normal lounge suit and discounting the extra length, focusing on the shoulders, chest, sleeves, etc.
post #70614 of 117668
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdl203 View Post

I think between johanm and the self-critique, most of the fit points have been mentioned. The fit at the main points of the body isn't too bad really - there are a few diagonal and horizontal folds that indicates problems (prob a lower shoulder and upper back posture) that should certainly have been fix with 8 fittings (I still cannot believe this btw, never heard of this).

My point when i say that it's bad or that the uniqlo looks better is less about minutiae of fit and more about the overall look and proportions. Johanm calls it styling but, really, what is the point of a bespoke tailor if he doesn't have a good eye and cuts shoulders, lapels, length and all the lines to fit the specific customer and bring in a harmonious balance? How can he let him leave with skinny short lapels that don't jibe at all with the slightly extended padded shoulders and extra long sleeves? Even if the tailor accepts to cut such skinny lapels (which stand out), he should then bring the whole look together with coherent stylistic choices (e.g. narrow shoulders, cropped everything, a la TB). I look at the suit and it just strikes me as looking odd. Odd in a bad way, that's all, no hate. It is silly to call all these things merely stylistic preferences, these are all important choices that can make a garment look either good or bad - sure, one can prefer to look bad, but that doesn't change the fact that these stylistic choices are, in fact, not good.

Perhaps part of the problem that you've pointed out is that the tailor doesn't do all his own work. He has a shop of about 6 tailors that help him out, and the suit only cost 2k.

And actually, I did have a large say in the details of the suit. I dictated the lower buttoning point (can't stand the current high-button-cropped-jacket trend) and the extra room at the back, for instance.

Additionally, I'd like to add that these robopose pics aren't a very good representation. The suit looks better when I'm just looking at myself in a full-length mirror, and in candid photos taken by friends, for instance.
post #70615 of 117668
2K wow.gif

What's the fabric? Looks a bit like nylon in the pic, but hard to tell.
post #70616 of 117668
Quote:
Originally Posted by johanm View Post

You'd be surprised, even the world's most renowned bespoke tailors don't always nail those minute details:

http://thelondonlounge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8227

^ THESE monstrosities are what you get at Saville Row? Seriously? My suit fits much better than either of those three.

VLSI it's worsted wool.
post #70617 of 117668
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDHagg View Post

^ THESE monstrosities are what you get at Saville Row? Seriously? My suit fits much better than either of those three.
VLSI it's worsted wool.

I get the impression the guy ordering the suits is just oblivious.... you get what you ask for.
post #70618 of 117668
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdl203 View Post

Seriously? I see here a rather avant-guardist interpretation of the suit that is a crossover between lounge suite and cutaway coat. The jacket is probably 3-4" longer than typical, with fronts and quarters cut similarly to a cutaway coat, while the back doesnt seem to be long like tails. The whole line of the suit is extremely coherent to me (I won't take out the MS paint red lines but I see a lot of well aligned lines, including a perfectly symmetrical X from notch to quarters), while at the same time being quite unusual. That one certainly looks odd to me too, but not in a bad way. I quite like it, even though I couldn't see myself wearing it

I really liked this look too, it's the opener for FW09 (the one with the neoprene boleros and Asics, and that show starts descending into variations from look 2, particularly that the trousers become more 'Raf' as the looks progress) - for most of the reasons you stated; long jacket length, the 'X' with the huge open quarters and that button stance. I agree it's not mild, I was using this in regards to this idea that YY would do in an office - I'd much rather wear something like this.
post #70619 of 117668
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDHagg View Post


Perhaps part of the problem that you've pointed out is that the tailor doesn't do all his own work. He has a shop of about 6 tailors that help him out, and the suit only cost 2k.
And actually, I did have a large say in the details of the suit. I dictated the lower buttoning point (can't stand the current high-button-cropped-jacket trend) and the extra room at the back, for instance.
Additionally, I'd like to add that these robopose pics aren't a very good representation. The suit looks better when I'm just looking at myself in a full-length mirror, and in candid photos taken by friends, for instance.


$2k is actually fairly inexpensive for a true Bespoke.  Generally, making the pattern alone, depending on who did it, can cost up to $1.5k.  Does the tailor still have the pattern or did he just measure you and then send out to have someone make the pant/jacket and then send back, measure you, and the alter?  That just seems really inexpensive for a real Bespoke designed suit.

post #70620 of 117668
Mooshortsphoto.jpg
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