LA fine dining, any experience?

Melisse was very good the last time I went, which was probably nine years ago.

Spago is a legend, but I haven't been there in a million years. I think it moved, but I don't know where. Used to be the lower Hollywood Hills, right on Sunset.

It is at the old Bistro Garden in BH now. Haven't been since it was in Hollywood.

I am surprised, in a good way, that it is still good enough to be considered worthy of two stars. I had sort of assumed that its greatness was long past and it was coasting solely in its reputation. Which I guess it still could be, but this is a good sign.

Spago is in Beverly Hills now and it's supposed to be great still, but I haven't been. Urasawa and Providence are the two on this list about which I hear the best things. Not on the list, but a place where I recently had a great meal is Church and State downtown. The roasted marrow bones were

It's a pretty space. I've eaten at the new locations a couple of times. The food was excellent, as was the service. I consider it one of those places that are really good despite their high profile and popular regard.

I love Valentino, although it's been quite a while since I was there for anything other than a late pasta. I rarely have the energy/time/whatever anymore to do the full tasting menu with lots of wine, etc., which is really what the Valentino experience is about (as well as gracious service).

I had a couple of great meals at Water Grill, but they were years ago and they've changed chefs and menus since then.

Mozza Pizzeria or Cafe or whatever it's called is great; haven't been to the Osteria. I've heard good things about it.

Patina has long been a favorite of mine, but I don't think I've had dinner there since they moved downtown -- what, maybe 4-5 years ago? Lunches there are excellent, though.

Yep. Every time I go (which makes me sound like more of a big timer than I am -- I go less than once a year, and about half the time on someone else's nickel) I moderate my expectations for the reasons you've expressed, and then am pleasantly surprised.

Thank you. I've been trying to remember the name of this restaurant for about a month now as I really want to go there, but for the life of me couldn't remember the name of the restaurant.

I had a pretty enjoyable meal at Sona. I wish we had done the tasting menu, but unfortunately we just ordered a la carte.

Yep... Melisse is awesome, especially if you sit near the kitchen and hear Josiah yelling at people. Although, he's mellowed over the past few years. The food is definitely great. Providence is amazing, but I'd put it slightly lower than Melisse as I've found dinner at Providence can be hit or miss. Spago always amazes since they still put out great food after all these years, refusing to be one of those places that coasts off its name/rep. I've never been to Urasawa because all my asian friends tell me it's a great place for "white sushi diners," and there are better sushi places to go. Ortolan would be 1.5 stars in my book, and you have the chance to see Jeri Ryan as the hostess some nights. Bastide... it was great under both chefs Lefebvre and Manzke (now at Church & State, which is worthy of a star and a visit because it's probably the best bistro in LA), but now it's some Assouline bookstore that does lunch and breakfast, so it may suck. Hatfields is in the middle of moving, so I never got a chance to try them, and The Dining Room is much better with Voltaggio cooking, but I would do a la carte since the tasting menu gets bit repetitive, feeling like him serving a bunch of courses he thinks you're expecting him to create based on what he made in "Top Chef." The Mozzas are worth going to... the butterscotch budino is a must and any of the pizzas with their fennel sausage. I enjoyed Patina when I was there about 4 years ago with the highlight being their giant double-deck cheese trolley, but they recently got a new chef, so maybe the food will be better than the cheese (the fromagier left and opened his own amazing cheese shop in Santa Monica, so maybe the Patina cheese program has suffered). Sona is... eh, good, but not great; I'd rather grab a burger at the sister restaurant Comme Ca. Valentino and Water Grill are probably in that 1.5 star area that I'd put Ortolan into, giving Water Grill an edge over Valentino.

uhm, how to say in the nicest possible way: Fine Dining is not what Southern California does best and Michelin is probably the worst possible source. It is seriously out of date and was badly ill-informed even when it was current. But if fine dining is what you want, Spago is still good, if occasionally absurdly theatrical. Providence is excellent, particularly if you are interested in seafood. Cut is a steakhouse, but good. You might want to try Jose Andres' Bazaar ... that's the one restaurant I still haven't eaten at that I really want to, a combination of both traditional Spanish and molecular: jamon iberico and spherical olives. Another great place that's fairly recent is John Sedlar's Rivera downtown ... kind of Latin American cooking with real haute cuisine polish (old-timers might remember him as the chef at St.Estephe back in the day). urasawa is otherworldly and charges like it. if you want an ultimate omakase experience, you can get it there. Valentino is up and down (been going for 30 years) but has an absolutely unbelievable wine list. At the next level down, call them bistros, there's the new Bouchon, of course. Church and State is in a kind of funky area of Downtown, but extremely good. If you want a Mozza, i'd go to the pizzeria. It's excellent. Also had a really nice dinner recently at a new restaurant called Eva, which is in the old Hatfields space (the Hatfields are moving almost nearby to the old Citrus space). On the other hand, you might just want to head to Torrance for really amazing Japanese like you won't find anyplace else, San Gabriel Valley for the same thing in Chinese, Garden Grove for the same thing in Vietnamese, Hollywood for the same thing in Thai ...

My favorite LA restaurant was Chinois on Main.

I am jealous that they have a Bouchon, I want one for NYC.

Keller, are you reading this?

Honestly, I'd spend the $300 on a RT ticket out to DC for a weekend and try all his places out there, especially the Minibar and Cafe Atlantico, since you'll get the same food (maybe even better) without the loud booming music bleeding in from the lounge or the circus show dining room with mismatching/uncomfortable seats and snooty service... and I never found a hair in my spinach at either of those two places. Although, I think the server's response to the hair in the spinach at the Bazaar was great... "Well, you know, these things happen."

Atlantico is extremely loud. Zaitinya is like an artillery range in the middle of an active runway. The loudest place in the whole world.

Mini Bar is very cool, I must say, if you like to eat in chem labs.