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Paypal - Seller escalated claim to dispute - UPDATE

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 
Hi

I purchased a scarf on ebay UK from Kingcraig Fabrics and paid for it on December 2, 2009. I tried contacting him regarding dispatch and there was no response. After a month had passed since payment I raised a claim against the seller through paypal. He responded that he had proof of dispatch. I responded please give the proof of dispatch. He did not give any response. I kept on waiting since the period to escalate to dispute is still pending and the scarf might turn up after all.

Today I got a mail from paypal that the seller had escalated the dispute and asked paypal to investigate and decide the outcome. I was a little bewildered upon seeing that the seller had chosed to escalate the claim to a dispute.

I am wondering

1. What is the benefit from the seller's point of view of escalating to a dispute.

2. Is the seller not obligated to provide any proof of dispatch. I thought the seller has to provide proof of delivery rather than only proof of dispatch.

Please note that the seller is from UK and I am from India. Recently I purchased a pair of shoes on ebay from UK seller and forum member salsalocust and they turned up in India 5 days after payment. Also just received a tie and a sweater from members in the US purchased through B &S. So I dont think Indian customs is the problem.

What are your thoughts and what should I do ?

Best regards


STATUS UPDATE

Just got a mail from Paypal. Relevant portion of the e-mail are extracted below

The seller has responded to our request for tracking information. We
haven't confirmed the tracking information yet but wanted to share the
seller's response with you.

Tracking Company: Royal Mail
Tracking Number: Air mail postal receipt


Logged onto Paypal and on the resolution center it says

Package Status:\t\tRoyal Mail tracking # Air mail postal receipt

and the "Air mail postal receipt" is a hyperlink which links back to the same page i.e. the resolution center.
post #2 of 19
Technically, there's nothing you can do. If he's escalated the case, Paypal will ask him for proof of delivery. If he can't provide it (which it seems he won't be able to), you'll get your money.
post #3 of 19
Hopefully you lucked out and a moron tried to scam you.
post #4 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by aj_del View Post
...

What are your thoughts and what should I do ?

Best regards
If he's shure of what he did I don't see why he shouldn't escalate.
Reading the various posts here and there I suspect a few buyers (I'm not implying you're one of them) tend to bully sellers with these paypal claims.
post #5 of 19
On the French speaking forum De Pied En Cap, Kingcraig seems to have a good reputation :
http://depiedencap.leforum.eu/t8408-...-cachemire.htm

In this thread it says that their communication skills are not very high ... Neither is their delivery ...

I have never bought anything to Kingcraig, I just pass the info.
post #6 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pabloj View Post
If he's shure of what he did I don't see why he shouldn't escalate.
Reading the various posts here and there I suspect a few buyers (I'm not implying you're one of them) tend to bully sellers with these paypal claims.

I agree with you that sellers put themselves at risk while shipping internationally as USPS Priority Mail and Royal Mail do not have the facility to show online delivery confirmation and it is easiest thing in the world to claim non receipt of package.

Quote:
Originally Posted by holymadness View Post
Hopefully you lucked out and a moron tried to scam you.



Quote:
Originally Posted by sylax View Post
On the French speaking forum De Pied En Cap, Kingcraig seems to have a good reputation :
http://depiedencap.leforum.eu/t8408-...-cachemire.htm

In this thread it says that their communication skills are not very high ... Neither is their delivery ...

I have never bought anything to Kingcraig, I just pass the info.

thanks for the link but my knowledge of french is restricted to bonjour. But wondering how do they have a good reputation is your communication skills and delivery are not good. Must be the product...
post #7 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by aj_del View Post
1. What is the benefit from the seller's point of view of escalating to a dispute.

Since you had raised a claim, Paypal probably had a hold on the funds you put in question. By raising it to a dispute, the seller can get it resolved more quickly and, his money released. This leads me to believe he feels he is in the right and not a scammer.
post #8 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonylumpkin View Post
Since you had raised a claim, Paypal probably had a hold on the funds you put in question. By raising it to a dispute, the seller can get it resolved more quickly and, his money released. This leads me to believe he feels he is in the right and not a scammer.

I personally dont think he is a scammer, he has so much stuff on sale on ebay. Regarding the seller being able to resolve it quickly I dont know he is goin to do that since he is reluctant to provide any proof of dispatch let alone delivery.

Just wondering if the ebay / paypal UK policy is to prove dispatch instead of delivery as is the case for US users. I think I read in another thread that under Italy PP policy proof of dispatch is enough.
post #9 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by aj_del View Post
I agree with you that sellers put themselves at risk while shipping internationally as USPS Priority Mail and Royal Mail do not have the facility to show online delivery confirmation and it is easiest thing in the world to claim non receipt of package.
...

If you send an item via Signed delivery Royal Mail do indeed show online that it has been delivered...via their Track and Trace service.
post #10 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubbishtheory View Post
If you send an item via Signed delivery Royal Mail do indeed show online that it has been delivered...via their Track and Trace service.


This is the message that I see on the Royal mail website for a pair of shoes which were sent to me by Bodiley's. They were delivered around 2-3 December.

Your item, posted on 26/11/09 with reference RJ462499220GB has been passed to the overseas postal service for delivery in INDIA


I dont know if it qualifies as receipt of delivery under paypal rules.
post #11 of 19
I have no idea what works for India's mail delivery system. However, if I order something from the UK to the US, once the item enters the US, the tracking number from the Royal Mail can then be used to track the shipment on the USPS web site. As for escalating the claim to a dispute, that's just the standard next step in the process for him after you file a claim. If the seller didn't resolve the matter after you filed a claim, he really has no other recourse but to escalate to a dispute and let PayPal figure it out. If he doesn't provide the proper information to PayPal, then you'll win and get your money back. Otherwise, it's just an unfortunate consequence of conducting business overseas.
post #12 of 19
Bought 2 lenghts of tweed from Shaun last year, went smooth and without problems, he is not extremely good at comms. You should had insisted for International Signed For (you add 3.50 to the delivery costs), which gives you tracking posibilities.
post #13 of 19
Thread Starter 
STATUS UPDATE Just got a mail from Paypal. Relevant portion of the e-mail are extracted below The seller has responded to our request for tracking information. We haven't confirmed the tracking information yet but wanted to share the seller's response with you. Tracking Company: Royal Mail Tracking Number: Air mail postal receipt Logged onto Paypal and on the resolution center it says Package Status:\t\tRoyal Mail tracking # Air mail postal receipt and the "Air mail postal receipt" is a hyperlink which links back to the same page i.e. the resolution center.
post #14 of 19
I've purchased from them this past holiday season and they sent out my items the following day. Items got delayed by the usual holiday rush but I still received them. I don't think they are scamming you.
post #15 of 19
Thread Starter 
Any idea what is this Royal Mail Air Mail Postal Receipt. Is it like the USPS First Class Mail i.e. the cheapest and slowest shipping method.

I have had only one experience with USPS First Class Mail and it has been a disaster. A package dispatched on 30th October 2009 from USA is yet to make it way to India. Either it is lost or coming by mule. No tracking number and no way to find where it is. Anyways, I got my money back on that occasion.
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