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recomendations for Napa Valley and SF

post #1 of 83
1/13/10 at 6:04pm
Thread Starter 
looks like Mrs trotter and I will be heading to Napa Valley for this years short vacation. the plan had been SF, but we were convinced to try Kwiks place, and sort of changed plans. looking at May. I want to make sure that we don't have any time issues with reservations, so I am thinking about the plans now. probrably 2 nights 2 days in Napa, 2 nights 2 days in SF.

any recomendations are welcome
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post #2 of 83
1/13/10 at 6:06pm
Bouchon.

Lots of wineries. Would help to know what kind you like.

For a non-bank-breaking meal in SF, Slanted Door. For a bank breaker, Gary Danko (though my last trip there was slightly disappointing, but my wife loved hers).
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post #3 of 83
1/13/10 at 6:06pm
I liked the town of Healdsburg which is a good launching off point for some wineries...and if you are a foodie Cyrus is one of the best places to eat in the country. my last trip there I did Cyrus and Gary Danko on back to back nights, and Cyrus completely crushed it...it's on a different level. if you're on a budget go to the Cyrus bar room and eat a la carte there...same food but not the whole experience (yes, this in is Sonoma, but w/e)
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post #4 of 83
1/13/10 at 6:10pm
Two nights, two days in Napa. Early lunch @ Bouchon, later dinner at Cyrus one night. Next day, million of options. There are so many good restaurants out here. One would be an idiot not to at least recommend TFL. There is also Redd, Meadowood, Farmhouse Inn, Madrona Manor. I'm sure there are great casual restaurants in Napa/Yountville, but I am not that familiar with that side of the wine country.

SF is just as full of good options. Masa was my first Michelin meal and holds a dear spot in my heart for that. The food was truly incredible, and fun. La Folie is a really great, more traditional French place that served me an outstanding meal (Snails, frog legs, and pig's feet terrine--- can you get any better than that?!) Other places are Danko, Coi, etc. More casual places in SF are Nopa (NoWePa), Delfina, Flour & Water, Slanted Door, etc. Then there are great super casual places like neighborhood restaurants, like great mexican and great chinese. I'm not as familiar with SF as some of the guys on here, but those places have been great in my experience.
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post #5 of 83
1/13/10 at 6:16pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post
Bouchon.

Lots of wineries. Would help to know what kind you like.

.

thanks, good point. I really like Medoc and Malbecs right now, but I get to Argentina and Chile and have been to Italy and France and the Rhine to visit wineries, so I guess I am looking for a more "american" experience. I pretty much never spend much more than 50 bucks for bottle of wine (when not in a resteraunt), and probrably more comfortable at a slightly lower price point, although if I was going to buy a couple of really nice bottles at a hundred bucks or so, it wouldn't kill me.

I guess a more varied experience, that wouldn't be a huge expense and wouldn't be better suited for somebody who really does understand wine better, would be a good fit. does that narrow it down at all?
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post #6 of 83
1/13/10 at 6:21pm
Thread Starter 
thanks, actually, lets give a little more guidance.

arriving in SF airport in early morning, rent a car. drive out with the idea of having dinner at Cyrus one night, and staying in town. then, arriving in SF the following night, leaving the next night on a red eye. so the second nights dinner could be in napa, on the way to SF, or in SF.

one lunch in SF should be chinese. maybe dim sum. most probrably one dinner will be italian.

also, anything non food related that is worth while seeing/doing.

so, two lunches in Napa, one lunch and two dinners in SF, plus Cyrus (as a given). and then 2 days visiting wineries around healdsburg I guess.

thanks
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post #7 of 83
1/13/10 at 6:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by globetrotter View Post
thanks, good point. I really like Medoc and Malbecs right now, but I get to Argentina and Chile and have been to Italy and France and the Rhine to visit wineries, so I guess I am looking for a more "american" experience. I pretty much never spend much more than 50 bucks for bottle of wine (when not in a resteraunt), and probrably more comfortable at a slightly lower price point, although if I was going to buy a couple of really nice bottles at a hundred bucks or so, it wouldn't kill me.

I guess a more varied experience, that wouldn't be a huge expense and wouldn't be better suited for somebody who really does understand wine better, would be a good fit. does that narrow it down at all?

Medoc = Cab for the most part, so you will be right at home in Napa.

Nearly all the wineries that make mid-priced wines don't require appointments. If you want to taste the cult cabs you need an appointment, or in some cases will simply be out of luck.

Basically, the valley is two more or less parallel roads: Highway 29 is the main road. Lots of very famous wineries there. The Silverado Trail is the less travelled road. Several wineries there too. You could simply drive up and down and stop wherever you see a place you are interested in. However, there are many wineries on side roads and otherwise obscured from view. So if you know a wine you like, look up its website, figure out where it is and whether it's open for tasting, requires an appointment, or is simply closed.

The three main towns in the Valley are Yountville, St. Helena and Calistoga. Yountiville is like a little rural Upper East Side these days. St. Helena is charming, but trending that way. Calistoga is still a bit hardscrable and "Old California."

Greystoke, the Culinary Institute's west coast campus, is amazing to tour and has a decent restaurant.

But Bouchon is the best place in the valley when the ratio of price to quality is factored in.
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post #8 of 83
1/13/10 at 6:24pm
Thread Starter 
cool, thanks



Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post
Medoc = Cab for the most part, so you will be right at home in Napa.

Nearly all the wineries that make mid-priced wines don't require appointments. If you want to taste the cult cabs you need an appointment, or in some cases will simply be out of luck.

Basically, the valley is two more or less parallel roads: Highway 29 is the main road. Lots of very famous wineries there. The Silverado Trail is the less travelled road. Several wineries there too. You could simply drive up and down and stop wherever you see a place you are interested in. However, there are many wineries on side roads and otherwise obscured from view. So if you know a wine you like, look up its website, figure out where it is and whether it's open for tasting, requires an appointment, or is simply closed.

The three main towns in the Valley are Yountville, St. Helena and Calistoga. Yountiville is like a little rural Upper East Side these days. St. Helena is charming, but trending that way. Calistoga is still a bit hardscrable and "Old California."

Greystoke, the Culinary Institute's west coast campus, is amazing to tour and has a decent restaurant.

But Bouchon is the best place in the valley when the ratio of price to quality is factored in.
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post #9 of 83
1/13/10 at 6:26pm
Sonoma is not cab country, so if you want to taste reds you are better off in Napa than in Sonoma, unless you are into Zin. Healdsburg is about 45 minutes west of Napa Valley (not as the crow flies, but there are no direct roads).
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post #10 of 83
1/13/10 at 6:32pm
Quote:
One would be an idiot not to at least recommend TFL.

I would love to do it, and if you have the budget that's great. but it's an awful lot of money that could be put towards other things, if budget is a concern. Cyrus is probably nearly as good for half the price.

IMO, once you get into that stratosphere, the incremental differences between places becomes very small.
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post #11 of 83
1/13/10 at 6:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by makewayhomer View Post
I would love to do it, and if you have the budget that's great. but it's an awful lot of money that could be put towards other things, if budget is a concern. Cyrus is probably nearly as good for half the price.

IMO, once you get into that stratosphere, the incremental differences between places becomes very small.

TFL is really twice that of Cyrus?
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post #12 of 83
1/13/10 at 6:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post
TFL is really twice that of Cyrus?

Not quite. $240, but that includes service. No drinks, of course.

On the other hand, unlike Cyrus, TFL has a lot of upcharges on the menu for certain items (e.g., foie).
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post #13 of 83
1/13/10 at 6:41pm
TFL also doesn't offer pairings. They say that they don't want to presume the wine you'd like to drink, but IMO it's just b/c you make more money selling bottles than glasses. It's also surprising that TFL doesn't offer any kind of bar service.
That said, it would still be stupid to not at least mention it in a thread about food in the wine country.
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post #14 of 83
1/13/10 at 6:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post
TFL is really twice that of Cyrus?
8 courses at Cyrus is $130 + $130 for wine pairing 5 courses is $102 + $102 11 ish courses at TFL is $240, probably about the same for the wine pairing, I have no idea how wine works there so 8 courses at Cyrus for $260 (with wine), 11 courses at TFL for $480 (fudging the wine cost here). so not quite twice as much, especially considering you're getting more courses at TFL. for 2 people, TFL will cost you at least hundreds of dollars more. at Cyrus of course it's possible to eat for a lot less, especially if you just want to grab a few courses in the bar room. me and my gf once shared 6 courses a la carte in the bar room at Cyrus (PLENTY of food) which cost a total of $140 ish in food. and the food is exactly the same as on the "real' menu. afaik this option doesn't exist at TFL, you are basically looking at close to a $1k night for a couple I think.
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post #15 of 83
1/13/10 at 6:44pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post
Sonoma is not cab country, so if you want to taste reds you are better off in Napa than in Sonoma, unless you are into Zin. Healdsburg is about 45 minutes west of Napa Valley (not as the crow flies, but there are no direct roads).
I am not locked into Cabs, if I can get a better "experience" doing something that would be new for me.

my feeling with american wines has always been that they are a little pricey for what they deliver - not to be a heritic, but I can get a pretty good 10 dollar bottle of argentinian malbec as a basic table wine, and a 100 bottle of argentinian or chilian, or even french wine is usually fantastic.

so I am not saying "well, I usually drink cab heavy reds so that's what I'd like to see" I guess I am thinking "introduce me to an experience that I haven't had before and that is very unique to northern california, that I can't get in Germany or France or Italy or Argentina.

so, if that means a valley that is mostly reisling (or chardanay, or pinot or who knows) style wines, but they have good value and it will be a fun experience, great.

does that make sense?

thanks for the efforts
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