Sartorial mythbusting

mmkn · Jan 13, 2010

Originally Posted by jefferyd

His weight is on his left foot which makes his pelvis tilt and his left hip lift; the spinal curve causes that shoulder to drop. SO we can't judge his suit.

. . . nor can we judge the fit of James' shirt by his stripes because of stance!

- M

Despos · Jan 13, 2010

Originally Posted by Manton

I know.

Though, I think we have not established either a balance or crooking problem--yet. All we seem to know for sure is that the stripes should be parallel and are not.

That is what the line of the stripe tells us. They way the stripe falls reveals this. The front lap is too skimpy as well. Add that to the list.

Manton · Jan 13, 2010

When we get the new pictures, we will have a better idea.

Despos · Jan 13, 2010

Originally Posted by Manton

When we get the new pictures, we will have a better idea.

You mean like the David Reeves before and after divot photos?

Manton · Jan 13, 2010

Originally Posted by Despos

You mean like the David Reeves before and after divot photos?

Nay says he is hiring an architect (RSS?) to snap some shots in which the fronal planes will be perfectly parallel to the camera lens. I can't wait.

Mr. Moo · Jan 13, 2010

Originally Posted by Bhowie

Im waiting for Moo to weigh in
I've lost some weight recently, so it won't be as dramatic. I think nitpicking line angles is marsupialed. Who cares about how something looks when you're standing still? How often does one stand perfectly still? whnay's coat looks nice, and I'd like to own something like it. If the lines weren't perfect I wouldn't give a crap because it wouldn't make a difference to me or my enjoyment of the coat. It kind of seems like whnay was content/happy/satisfied with his garment until the forum took apart a grainy image, and now he's going to take lots of other photos to either prove the forum wrong or convince himself that he doesn't like his coat enough to fix it. A few weeks ago I'm sure he loved the coat and wouldn't change a thing.

TRINI · Jan 13, 2010

Originally Posted by Mr. Moo

I think nitpicking line angles is marsupialed. Who cares about how something looks when you're standing still? How often does one stand perfectly still? whnay's coat looks nice, and I'd like to own something like it. If the lines weren't perfect I wouldn't give a crap because it wouldn't make a difference to me or my enjoyment of the coat.

If it doesn't fit properly properly when you're standing still (as the skewness of the lines seem to indicate), do you think it's going to fit/look any better when you're moving?

TheFoo · Jan 13, 2010

Originally Posted by Mr. Moo

I think nitpicking line angles is marsupialed.

Even if you're okay with the lines being at an angle, they still may indicate an underlying fit problem, even if a small one. One pays a huge premium for this kind of bespoke garment, and bespoke is all about fine-tuning details that would go unnoticed or unattended in RTW or MTM, so it's only natural for whnay to care about these things, even while whnay continues to enjoy his jacket.

Manton · Jan 13, 2010

The fact that the lines above the waist button are also angled like an upside down "V" suggests the possibilty of a long front balance. However, that is only sign that I see. Otherwise, I like the "X" that the opening above the button forms with the quarters.

I also see no evidence of improper crooking. But of course I am less likely to notice it than an actual tailor.

Mr. Moo · Jan 13, 2010

Originally Posted by TRINI

If it doesn't fit properly properly when you're standing still (as the skewness of the lines seem to indicate), do you think it's going to fit/look any better when you're moving?

Perhaps, or perhaps not. Or perhaps no one notices/you don't care, so there's no problem. I don't see an issue with the line (I see what you are all saying, but I don't think anyone would say "holy ****, look at that awful ******* coat... look at those crooked lines. Did Stevie Wonder make that?" I'm small time, most posters here are big time, so maybe that's the difference. I think whnay liked his coat just fine before this thread.

jefferyd · Jan 13, 2010

You buy a Ferrari, you expect to get a Ferrari, even if you don't recognize what all the little bits inside are. If they slip in some Chinese parts or they glues stuff instead of welding it and you don't see it, it doesn't mean you didn't get ripped off. Whnay's Ferrari is shiny and red and makes the chicks look so he's happy with that, but the alternator's screwy.

Mr. Moo · Jan 13, 2010

Originally Posted by mafoofan

Even if you're okay with the lines being at an angle, they still may indicate an underlying fit problem, even if a small one. One pays a huge premium for this kind of bespoke garment, and bespoke is all about fine-tuning details that would go unnoticed or unattended in RTW or MTM, so it's only natural for whnay to care about these things, even while whnay continues to enjoy his jacket.

If there was a fit issue, should whnay (someone seasoned in the bespoke game) have noticed it on his own? And if he did not, would you say that the issue wasn't so great that it needs fixing?

ohm · Jan 13, 2010

Originally Posted by Mr. Moo

Perhaps, or perhaps not. Or perhaps no one notices/you don't care, so there's no problem. I don't see an issue with the line (I see what you are all saying, but I don't think anyone would say "holy ****, look at that awful ******* coat... look at those crooked lines. Did Stevie Wonder make that?" I'm small time, most posters here are big time, so maybe that's the difference. I think whnay liked his coat just fine before this thread.

I don't think he dislikes it now that he's seen this thread. At least, I didn't read that into any of his posts. Pre-thread he said he likes the coat but there were some issues he was going to talk to A&S about and post-thread it seems like he's said the same thing. I think much of this forum ranges well beyond the level of "would the average person care about this?" Maybe nobody except a tailor or someone on the internet is going to care about the issues here but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be correct.

weilian · Jan 13, 2010

Originally Posted by jefferyd

You buy a Ferrari, you expect to get a Ferrari, even if you don't recognize what all the little bits inside are. If they slip in some Chinese parts or they glues stuff instead of welding it and you don't see it, it doesn't mean you didn't get ripped off. Whnay's Ferrari is shiny and red and makes the chicks look so he's happy with that, but the alternator's screwy.
Kinda like the Swiss watch industry... slipping you some Chinese parts. I would totally be peeved.

voxsartoria · Jan 13, 2010

Originally Posted by Despos

I sense some sarcasm but Jeffery's points are valid. Whnay's jacket is out of whack. The coat shoulder is overly crooked and the front/back balance is off.
I have remade jackets for clients for this same thing and not because they had any idea of this or even noticed. The jacket fit well in every other aspect but I personally did not want the jacket to go out of the shop like this. The grain/pattern in a cloth will not lie if there is a problem in the cutting/fitting and it works as a guide to see what you are doing. Maybe every tailor has their own concept of what is absolute and where you can cheat a little. I am with Jeffery on this one.

I have only dropped in and out of this discussion, will start at the beginning when I get time.

Originally Posted by Manton

I know.

Though, I think we have not established either a balance or crooking problem--yet. All we seem to know for sure is that the stripes should be parallel and are not.

Originally Posted by Despos

That is what the line of the stripe tells us. They way the stripe falls reveals this. The front lap is too skimpy as well. Add that to the list.

WindowpaneCrotchShots™:

Even when whnay. gets a more perpendicular shot, I have the feeling that the pattern will not right itself that much...but, we'll see.

I suppose it is possible that there was an intent when the the jacket was cut to splay the windowpane out to the sides...but that's a rather unusual decision, and somewhat Dr. Seus. If, on the other hand, the windowpane was meant to present itself normally, something odd is definitely happening.

Moreover, since pattern expresses the grain of the fabric as Despos notes, it's not just a matter of appearence (that is, if it were a solid Breanish, no problem...but not really.)

- B

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