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The World Cup starts in 5 days... - Page 2

post #16 of 64
fan violence in the USA is rare, philly region fans notwithstanding....

and even in philly, it's mostly non-stop booing.

my favorite veterans stadium 700 level stories:

1) Ed Rendell (later mayor, current governor) taking bets on who could hit opponents with a snowball.

2) The jail in the basement

As for the world cup, i'll be slipping out to watch the US games.
post #17 of 64
Thread Starter 
Its not just a European problem,I believe the violence in South America excedes anything seen in Europe.I am in no way condoning any violence whatsoever but I believe part of the problem is the unique passion that the greatest game on earth provokes.
"Some people think that football is more important than life or death,I can assure you it is much,much more important than that" Bill Shankly.
post #18 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldo pepper
Basketball=Netball,a womans game.

Dude, have you ever seen a WNBA game? I know it sounds sexist and all, but seriously, basketball is a man's game.
post #19 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spudbunny
The article asserts, "For no matter how many college games end in drunken mob violence (as many do), no matter how many American city centres see running battles between sports fans and riot police..." Don't you need, like, evidence for such claims? The author then chooses one case, Eagles fans, and draws general conclusions. Really the article is little more than an expression of the typical anti-Americanism of British journalists for which there is apparently an audience.

I also don't recall in the US a game being stopped by a riot in the stands (which had been set on fire), followed by negotiations with the rioters by the star player of one team, after which he returned and told the referee, "They [the fans] say they will kill us if we continue." But that happened in the Roma-Lazio game last year. It was Totti who spoke with the chant leaders. The game then ended.

I would add that I recently went to a baseball game in DC with my Italian friend. As we walked up to our seats, he noted that the atmosphere was so much different than at the San Siro. "There is much less tension," he said, noting that American baseball fans treated the game like a picnic or a festival.

Also, when an African-American touches the ball (or makes a catch or whatever), fans in the US do not break out into monkey grunts. Yet that happened to the English players Sol Campbell and Ashley Cole in Slovokia in 2004 and it happened in Spain last year (to Roberto Carlos, a Brazilian). I am not saying the US is free of racism. However, fans at any game I know of do not behave as they might have at an SEC college basketball game in 1955. Football fans in Spain and elsewhere do behave that way in 2005. If they did not, why does FIFA have a campaign against racism and why have they had to fine fans and teams for their appalling racist chants?

The ironic thing is: I like football more than American sports. But we should not pretend Europe is all good and the US is crap.

"If we continue, they will kill us." And everyone believed him. And the stadium was burning.

Geez.

No one is saying that the Europe is all good and the US is crap. The article (from a UK paper) is pointing out that the US also has a sports hooligan problem, and was cited for the benefit of a (presumably) British poster who found football fans to be boorish and ill-behaved compared to their rugby and cricket counterparts.

Just a little context: the incident during the Rome derby two years ago to which you refer began with a rumor that a young child had been hit and killed by a police car outside the stadium. While later proved to be untrue, there was quite bit of unrest inside the stadium as fans removed their banners, called for the game to be abandoned, and began to throw missles and flares down on the field. A temporaray halt saw representatives from both sets of fans come down from the stands and speak with the referee and the captains, and it was decided for reasons of public safety to stop the match.
post #20 of 64
Quote:
American Football=Rugby but we don't wear padding and helmets
I believe this has been mentioned before, and my reply is the same now as it was then. American football and Rugby are two completely different sports. Yes, Rugby players don't wear pads or helmets. They are tough, physical athletes. They also aren't absorbing anywhere near the same amount of punishment a person in the NFL sustains. The disparity in size and weight between the position players on the field is one of the major reasons for this. The other is the general speed and athleticism of the bigger men in the NFL. I have never seen a 425 lb rugby player collide at full speed with a 200 lb rugby player without pads. Rugby players all tend to be in the same size range. Which, though I'm sure it still hurts, is a much more managable force for your body to deal with. It is like jumping off your bed and bellyflopping on the floor. Yeah, it hurts, but it probably won't kill you. I'd like to see a rugby player try and play NFL football without pads and a helmet. Scientifically speaking he should be dead before the first half ends. If you ever feel like simulating what this would be like, take something that weighs twice as much as you, winch it up in the air about 15 feet, and then drop it. Now try to jump up in the air face first with your arms spread wide, and try to catch it. Land on your back or shoulder. Good luck. That said, I also enjoy soccer (football), am looking forward to the World Cup, and um... GO Oranje!
post #21 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by romafan

Just a little context: the incident during the Rome derby two years ago to which you refer began with a rumor that a young child had been hit and killed by a police car outside the stadium. While later proved to be untrue, there was quite bit of unrest inside the stadium as fans removed their banners, called for the game to be abandoned, and began to throw missles and flares down on the field.

...and set fire to the stadium, threatened to kill both teams and the referees (according to Totti), and generally ran amok.

Did I mention that the most well-known player on the other side that day, Lazio, was a man named Paolo di Canio? Last season he twice gave the fascist salute after scoring a goal. He also has a statue of Benito Mussolini in his home.

Still, despite all that, I would say: Forza Juve! Even in Serie B.
post #22 of 64
Actually, I think that it is the armour that makes American football more dangerous than Rugby. In rugby, there is a lot more clutching and pulling, but a whole lot less in the way of "hits". Put it this way, rugby is like bareknuckle fighting, and football is like boxing. Padded gloves allow someone to punch a lot harder without injury. That, plus the disparity in sizes between players in various positions makes American football a lot more dangerous than rugby.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokyo Slim
I believe this has been mentioned before, and my reply is the same now as it was then. American football and Rugby are two completely different sports. Yes, Rugby players don't wear pads or helmets. They are tough, physical athletes. They also aren't absorbing anywhere near the same amount of punishment a person in the NFL sustains. The disparity in size and weight between the position players on the field is one of the major reasons for this. The other is the general speed and athleticism of the bigger men in the NFL.

I have never seen a 425 lb rugby player collide at full speed with a 200 lb rugby player without pads. Rugby players all tend to be in the same size range. Which, though I'm sure it still hurts, is a much more managable force for your body to deal with. It is like jumping off your bed and bellyflopping on the floor. Yeah, it hurts, but it probably won't kill you. I'd like to see a rugby player try and play NFL football without pads and a helmet. Scientifically speaking he should be dead before the first half ends.

If you ever feel like simulating what this would be like, take something that weighs twice as much as you, winch it up in the air about 15 feet, and then drop it. Now try to jump up in the air face first with your arms spread wide, and try to catch it. Land on your back or shoulder. Good luck.

That said, I also enjoy soccer (football), am looking forward to the World Cup, and um... GO Oranje!
post #23 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokyo Slim
I believe this has been mentioned before, and my reply is the same now as it was then. American football and Rugby are two completely different sports. Yes, Rugby players don't wear pads or helmets. They are tough, physical athletes. They also aren't absorbing anywhere near the same amount of punishment a person in the NFL sustains. The disparity in size and weight between the position players on the field is one of the major reasons for this. The other is the general speed and athleticism of the bigger men in the NFL.

I have never seen a 425 lb rugby player collide at full speed with a 200 lb rugby player without pads. Rugby players all tend to be in the same size range. Which, though I'm sure it still hurts, is a much more managable force for your body to deal with. It is like jumping off your bed and bellyflopping on the floor. Yeah, it hurts, but it probably won't kill you. I'd like to see a rugby player try and play NFL football without pads and a helmet. Scientifically speaking he should be dead before the first half ends.

If you ever feel like simulating what this would be like, take something that weighs twice as much as you, winch it up in the air about 15 feet, and then drop it. Now try to jump up in the air face first with your arms spread wide, and try to catch it. Land on your back or shoulder. Good luck.

That said, I also enjoy soccer (football), am looking forward to the World Cup, and um... GO Oranje!

Ok..firstly I know nothing about US football,so I have just been to the Seahawks website and the heaviest player on the roster is 320lbs and the lightest 178lbs.
The "golden boy" of rugby is Johnny Wilkinson who is 185 lbs and in the current England squad the forwards Ben Kay,Andrew Shetridan are both around 280 lbs so the disparity in size argument doesn't stand up!
Furthermore your boys play in sneakers our boys play in 1 inch long studs which in a ruck are used to rake,usually at some point in the game leaving somebody with a nice set of stitches in the head.
post #24 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by borace
Why is it that english football supporters are such moronic thugs compared to rugby or cricket fans.

Rugby is a thug's game for gentlemen, whereas football is a gentleman's game for thugs.

At least according to my English friends...
post #25 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy
Americans, for all their faults, seem generally more willing and ready to acknowledge and confront their own prejudices. Many Europeans would do well to learn to be as honest about such things.

They're too busy feeling superior and disdainful.
post #26 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spudbunny
...and set fire to the stadium, threatened to kill both teams and the referees (according to Totti), and generally ran amok.

Did I mention that the most well-known player on the other side that day, Lazio, was a man named Paolo di Canio? Last season he twice gave the fascist salute after scoring a goal. He also has a statue of Benito Mussolini in his home.

Still, despite all that, I would say: Forza Juve! Even in Serie B.

Serie B if they're lucky!

Yes, Italy has a big problem w/ the ultras/tifosi.

Di Canio is an animal and self-admitted fascist, and an asshole to boot. All intra-city derbys are tense affairs, to the point of creating an almost incendiary atmosphere. Add to that the fact that Roman fans historically divided along political and class lines (Lazio supported by wealthier, 'right wing', suburban-dwellers vs. Roma's working-class, 'left wing', inhabitants of the city center) and you've got a real potboiler. This distinction has blurred in recent years, and the Roma curva has (sadly) seen the entrance of a right wing element.


"I would add that I recently went to a baseball game in DC with my Italian friend. As we walked up to our seats, he noted that the atmosphere was so much different than at the San Siro. "There is much less tension," he said, noting that American baseball fans treated the game like a picnic or a festival."

I would imagine he did not necessarily mean this was a good thing - "tension" or "atmoshpere" is what makes games so exciting.....
post #27 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by montecristo#4
They're too busy feeling superior and disdainful.

Funny how the same is said by some Europeans of Americans. Hopeless.
post #28 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by romafan

I would imagine he did not necessarily mean this was a good thing - "tension" or "atmoshpere" is what makes games so exciting.....

No, by tension he meant: "a sense of incipient violence." He was struck by the lightness of the crowd, the carnival atmosphere.

Still, we sat in the stands and talked about nothing but Juve and Serie A. Football is a lot more interesting than baseball, and as I noticed as explained to him what was going on, some of the rules of baseball don't make a damn bit of sense.
post #29 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldo pepper
Ok..firstly I know nothing about US football,so I have just been to the Seahawks website and the heaviest player on the roster is 320lbs and the lightest 178lbs.
The "golden boy" of rugby is Johnny Wilkinson who is 185 lbs and in the current England squad the forwards Ben Kay,Andrew Shetridan are both around 280 lbs so the disparity in size argument doesn't stand up!
Furthermore your boys play in sneakers our boys play in 1 inch long studs which in a ruck are used to rake,usually at some point in the game leaving somebody with a nice set of stitches in the head.

Yes, but in American football, there are probably 8 guys on the field at any given time who are about or over 300 pounds, and run 40 yards in 4.6 seconds. Also, in football there's more of a chance of a large player colliding with another after a 10 or 20 yard all out sprint. This certainly adds force.
post #30 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabienne
Funny how the same is said by some Europeans of Americans. Hopeless.

No, Europeans say we are arrogant, unsophisticated, and militaristic.
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