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Watches losing popularity - Page 3

post #31 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by wEstSidE
My favorite watch of all time is the TAG Heuer Monaco. Second on my list is the Movado Museum. I like the Monaco because Steve McQueen wore it. Refined, I know.

Westside, I agree. The Monaco is a really cool watch. At first, I thought Cartier was the best in the world, and although their design and finish is right up there, I now look at other brands because of the movement and other factors.

Tastes change, but it depends on the person. Now I wouldn't even consider most brands as it would be like buying Mark's Work Wearhouse or something.
post #32 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violinist
At first, I thought Cartier was the best in the world, and although their design and finish is right up there, I now look at other brands because of the movement and other factors.


WHAT?

Jon.
post #33 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by imageWIS
WHAT?

Jon.

O get over yourself. I'm sick of haughty WIS geeks ripping on Cartier... yea we all realize most of them use ETA movements (although the new Pacha 42mm and Santos 100 Chrono use great movements), but in terms of finishing, Cartier is one of the greatest jewelry houses in the world and the finishing of their watches is of very high quality. Will it equal a Patek? Of course not. What also makes me laugh are two guys I know, whose watch collections (I will bet anything) vastly outstrips whatever you have... among their many nauseatingly expensive watches are some Cartiers (that they bought for their wife), and a few from the PC, and they all comment on the high level of finishing. My dad for example has a Breguet and a Patek, and I'd say my mom's Cartier is definately a venerable timepiece from an aesthetic point of view.
post #34 of 119
Considering a) the Borg like efficiency of ETA in taking over other manufacturers and b) the consistency, reliability and quality of their movements I don't see that as a bad thing per se. Getting an in-house movement can be nice in principle but it does not mean you are necessarily getting something of better (or worse) quality than an ETA mass-made movement. Anyhow, yes, Cartier can be decent as watches and the ETA thing is not necessarily bad - but the biggest draw to them fwiw imho are the Cartier name, style and finish. That is my guess why you do see such "snobbery" from WIS Disclaimer: Just so you know where I stand, even if I had the disposable income I doubt I would buy a Cartier, a Rolex, an Omega, a Patek et.c. While each have their own cachee and "plusses" those are not things I am interested in. Probably would end up with a Glasshutte or two, some interesting tourbillion and even more ex-military watches Maybe even a small manufacturer's/artisan's watch if I find it interesting or it has some complication that speaks to me somehow...
post #35 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by skalogre
Considering a) the Borg like efficiency of ETA in taking over other manufacturers and b) the consistency, reliability and quality of their movements I don't see that as a bad thing per se. Getting an in-house movement can be nice in principle but it does not mean you are necessarily getting something of better (or worse) quality than an ETA mass-made movement.
Anyhow, yes, Cartier can be decent as watches but the biggest draw to them fwiw imho are the Cartier name, style and finish. That is my guess why you do see such "snobbery" from WIS

Disclaimer:
Just so you know where I stand, even if I had the disposable income I doubt I would buy a Cartier, a Rolex, an Omega, a Patek et.c. While each have their own cachee and "plusses" those are not things I am interested in. Probably would end up with a Glasshutte or two, some interesting tourbillion and even more ex-military watches
Maybe even a small manufacturer's/artisan's watch if I find it interesting or it has some complication that speaks to me somehow...

Skalagore, I totally agree in a lot of ways. I should also mention that most WISs I've met have appauling personal style, so they don't really appreciate the styling of Cartier. My favourite brands include UN, Breguet, the Maurice Lacroix Masterpiece line, JLC (I'm getting a reverso grande date or GMT), Lange and GO... so I am definately not someone for buying only recognizable brands. I'll probably buy a Cartier or two because they I think their design rival anyone aesthetically, though they might lack in some of the finer points. At the end of the day, my dad's Plat. Calatrava bores the hell out of me.
post #36 of 119
Repost
post #37 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by designprofessor
On a related issue, that of very expensive watches. It seems odd to me that the wealthy indulge this. For that kind of money, I would think one would have the financial freedom to show up at appointments whenever they damn well please.
You're missing the point. The point of high end watches isn't to tell the time per se, but to have a work of art, of mechanical genius, to have something crafted by a skilled artisan.
post #38 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violinist
O get over yourself. I'm sick of haughty WIS geeks ripping on Cartier... yea we all realize most of them use ETA movements (although the new Pacha 42mm and Santos 100 Chrono use great movements), but in terms of finishing, Cartier is one of the greatest jewelry houses in the world and the finishing of their watches is of very high quality. Will it equal a Patek? Of course not. What also makes me laugh are two guys I know, whose watch collections (I will bet anything) vastly outstrips whatever you have... among their many nauseatingly expensive watches are some Cartiers (that they bought for their wife), and a few from the PC, and they all comment on the high level of finishing. My dad for example has a Breguet and a Patek, and I'd say my mom's Cartier is definately a venerable timepiece from an aesthetic point of view.
Wow. Just wow. Dude, you really have no clue what you are talking about. First off your arguments are all over the place. You started with:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violinist
At first, I thought Cartier was the best in the world, and although their design and finish is right up there, I now look at other brands because of the movement and other factors.
Which makes no sense because finishing is only regarding how well ‘finished’ the case and movement is, nothing else. Cartier is hardly well finished. If you look at the back of a Pasha Chronograph, which uses the fantastic F. Piguet 1185 chronograph movement, you will notice that the movement is stamped with the Cartier-motif again and again. Instead of being finished with Côtes de Genève or some other form of finer finishing, they simply choose to machine stamp, hardly worth of ‘finish is right up there’. Also, none of the plates or bridges underneath are polished or finished as well as they could be. And yes, while the watch is quite well finished when it comes to the exterior case, it is not ‘up there’ with PP, AP, JLC, just to name a few. You somehow moved into movements, which is a completely different subject, for the movement used in a watch is not a detrimental part of the finishing of the case or movement. There are watches from companies like IWC that take basic ETA / Valjoux movements and finish them off to higher-than-Patek standards (well, the grand complication models, anyways) also, you should see what UN (and I don’t like them, nothing to do with the watches, it’s a few problems I had with their office here in Boca) can do with basic ETA movements. Also, you do realize that from a quality point of view (and apparently you think that quality equals design) for the same price there are better watches out there than Cartier, right? Oh, and since you have no idea regarding my watch collection or my knowledge regarding horology, and you don’t really seem to have any, how can you possibly judge? I rather be a ‘geek’ as you call it and know what I’m talking about than be an ignoramus, full of hot air that hasn’t got a clue. This is why I basically stopped posting on watch forums, because every day some person would come and post criticize regarding things they did not understand. Jon. BTW: my personal style is quite good, thank you.
post #39 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by zjpj83
You're missing the point. The point of high end watches isn't to tell the time per se, but to have a work of art, of mechanical genius, to have something crafted by a skilled artisan.

Oftentimes, yes. Frankly I will use my watches to tell time, but when I am bored I will look at them (i.e. which ever one is gracing my wrist at that moment in time) and just look at the way it's made, designed, and finished. My watches with complications tend not to be used for their intended purposes, i.e. I don't time anything specific with a Chronograph; rather I just play around with it. This is the reason why they make clear case backs / skeletonized backs, simply for the pure beauty of it.

Jon.
post #40 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by skalogre
Considering a) the Borg like efficiency of ETA in taking over other manufacturers and b) the consistency, reliability and quality of their movements I don't see that as a bad thing per se. Getting an in-house movement can be nice in principle but it does not mean you are necessarily getting something of better (or worse) quality than an ETA mass-made movement.
Anyhow, yes, Cartier can be decent as watches and the ETA thing is not necessarily bad - but the biggest draw to them fwiw imho are the Cartier name, style and finish. That is my guess why you do see such "snobbery" from WIS

Disclaimer:
Just so you know where I stand, even if I had the disposable income I doubt I would buy a Cartier, a Rolex, an Omega, a Patek et.c. While each have their own cachee and "plusses" those are not things I am interested in. Probably would end up with a Glasshutte or two, some interesting tourbillion and even more ex-military watches
Maybe even a small manufacturer's/artisan's watch if I find it interesting or it has some complication that speaks to me somehow...

What do you mean? Because the reason ETA's are used is because they are inexpensive and mass-produced. From a business standpoint, a company like Cartier would be smart to use ETA movements since they are reliable, can take a beating and most people who buy Cartier watches do not do so for the movements, they can skimp on finishing, because they figure that most customers won't care. And they are right; they could care less. My point however is that Cartier is not up to the same standards as other companies in the same price range.

Also, great as the watch movements from F. Piguet may be, the company is owned by Swatch just as ETA is. But, they are designed and made in a completely different manner, and thus come out completely differently.

Jon.
post #41 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by imageWIS
Wow. Just wow. Dude, you really have no clue what you are talking about. First off your arguments are all over the place. You started with:



Which makes no sense because finishing is only regarding how well ‘finished’ the case and movement is, nothing else. Cartier is hardly well finished. If you look at the back of a Pasha Chronograph, which uses the fantastic F. Piguet 1185 chronograph movement, you will notice that the movement is stamped with the Cartier-motif again and again. Instead of being finished with Côtes de Genève or some other form of finer finishing, they simply choose to machine stamp, hardly worth of ‘finish is right up there’. Also, none of the plates or bridges underneath are polished or finished as well as they could be. And yes, while the watch is quite well finished when it comes to the exterior case, it is not ‘up there’ with PP, AP, JLC, just to name a few.

You somehow moved into movements, which is a completely different subject, for the movement used in a watch is not a detrimental part of the finishing of the case or movement. There are watches from companies like IWC that take basic ETA / Valjoux movements and finish them off to higher-than-Patek standards (well, the grand complication models, anyways) also, you should see what UN (and I don’t like them, nothing to do with the watches, it’s a few problems I had with their office here in Boca) can do with basic ETA movements.

Also, you do realize that from a quality point of view (and apparently you think that quality equals design) for the same price there are better watches out there than Cartier, right?

Oh, and since you have no idea regarding my watch collection or my knowledge regarding horology, and you don’t really seem to have any, how can you possibly judge? I rather be a ‘geek’ as you call it and know what I’m talking about than be an ignoramus, full of hot air that hasn’t got a clue.

Jon.

Did I ever compare the finishing to the big three or even JLC? Never, I simply said that their under 10k offerings aren't as "peasant" as a lot of you would have people believe. Also, I remember a while back you posted a list of you collection (the details of which I hardly remember - being that it was relatively unremarkable when compared to my points of reference). People like to equate Cartier with some sort of cheap mall brand like Gucci, which really is not true at all. As a piece of jewelry I think Cartier does its job very well. Yeah, the case backs like Panerai can be dissapointing with the stamped logo, but whenever I evaluate a product, I take it from the standpoint of what is this brand trying to accomplish. Besides some of the highest end private collection pieces (some new interesting ones were shown at Basel this year), no one would argue that Cartier is after the image of haute horlogerie... it's a jeweler who makes beautiful watches.

Am I aware of value? Obviously, which is why I'm thinking of spending 5k on JLC Grande Date and not a Tank Americaine, it's also the reason that I love the Nomos Tangomat, and have been lusting after a GO for a long time. I just still cannot stand the viewpoint that Cartier is mall trash.
post #42 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by aybojs
spending tens of thousands of dollars for a shiny wrist ornament.
I've just been doing the math and it seems the wrist ornament I used to have cost me a great deal more than that; closer to $1,000,000.

Oh wait, you're talking about watches................

Never mind.
post #43 of 119
I am a geek, and a trained (although not practicing) engineer. Mechanical & automatic watches as small efficient well-designed machines fascinate me. I love, like Jon, clear casebacks, skeletonised movements, decorated movements et.c. But the only watch I own that is intentionally well finished and that has that as a selling point is my Stowa Antea. Could I survive without the Cote de Geneve, saphire and heat blued screws et.c. on it? Surely. But it does make a tasteful and well made watch even nicer. Frankly both of you raise some good pouingts (when you are not going for the jugular, mind you ).
The rest of my watches are distinctly of the proletariat ( ) but that is something I prefer.
post #44 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota rube
I've just been doing the math and it seems the wrist ornament I used to have cost me a great deal more than that; closer to $1,000,000.

Oh wait, you're talking about watches................

Never mind.

post #45 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violinist
Did I ever compare the finishing to the big three or even JLC? Never, I simply said that their under 10k offerings aren't as "peasant" as a lot of you would have people believe. Also, I remember a while back you posted a list of you collection (the details of which I hardly remember - being that it was unremarkable). People like to equate Cartier with some sort of cheap mall brand like Gucci, which really is not true at all. As a piece of jewelry I think Cartier does its job very well. Yeah, the case backs like Panerai can be dissapointing with the stamped logo, but whenever I evaluate a product, I take it from the standpoint of what is this brand trying to accomplish. Besides some of the highest end private collection pieces (some new interesting ones were shown at Basel this year), no one would argue that Cartier is after the image of haute horlogerie... it's a jeweler who makes beautiful watches. Am I aware of value? Obviously, which is why I'm thinking of spending 5k on JLC Grande Date and not a Tank Americaine, it's also the reason that I love the Nomos Tangomat, and have been lusting after a GO for a long time. I just still cannot stand the viewpoint that Cartier is mall trash.
Who ever said it was mall trash? I think Cartier is a very important part of watch history, but they are and always will be a jewelry company that happens to carry watches. But, again your point did not equate to the reality of Cartier. And I don’t know where you get your $10K number from, since there are many good watches that can be had for less than that, like JLC, IWC, etc. That collection doesn’t look like it once did, and also that was 2 years ago…I think your anger is misplaced regarding the thoughts of other people who are not I. Jon.
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