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Bespoke: The Beginning of the End - Page 11

post #151 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by srivats View Post
I remember seeing a thread here where someone made the same allegation about Rubinacci - and people came here to defend them vociferously.

The argument then was quite different iirc. That was an argument trying to distinguish Rubinacci from SR concerns (and yes in that regard whether Rubinacci is a brand as opposed to a tailoring house rather than lump them all together as "brands." At least that's how I recall it. . .
post #152 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartolo View Post
The argument then was quite different iirc. That was an argument trying to distinguish Rubinacci from SR concerns (and yes in that regard whether Rubinacci is a brand as opposed to a tailoring house rather than lump them all together as "brands." At least that's how I recall it. . .

Rubinacci, like Caraceni, is, in fact, a tailoring house and not a brand.

Brioni and Kiton are brands and not tailoring houses.

I am glad that we [finally] got that straightened out (hopefully, once and for all ). HALLELUIAH!!!!! to that.
post #153 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Film Noir Buff View Post
I wasn't necessarily referring to academic credentials, licenses or certificates (Although neither was i excluding them) but to anyone with experience, skill, expertise, talent etc... I dont think you necessarily have to be formally trained and I think a customer can also have elements of these characteristics but it's beyond arguing about or having to prove. One either has it, or they don't.

I agree entirely.
post #154 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by OxxfordSJLINY View Post
Rubinacci, like Caraceni, is, in fact, a tailoring house and not a brand. Brioni and Kiton are brands and not tailoring houses. I am glad that we [finally] got that straightened out (hopefully, once and for all ). HALLELUIAH!!!!! to that.
Rubinacci and the Savile Row tailors are brands, pure and simple. I don't have a problem with this and neither should others, the only thing that should bother is whether or not they produce an excellent product.
post #155 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tidybeard View Post
Not to be confrontational but if the client picks the fabric and details of the shirt (collar, cuffs, buttons, etc.) and you send these details to someone else in England to make the shirt, I'm not sure it's fair to complain if the client doesn't want your name in it.

Well said. And why a mere salesman in the rag trade calls himself an artist is really beyond me.
post #156 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshman View Post
Well said. And why a mere salesman in the rag trade calls himself an artist is really beyond me.
it's no wonder you have so few proffesionals on these threads. Goodbye.
post #157 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by OxxfordSJLINY View Post
Rubinacci, like Caraceni, is, in fact, a tailoring house and not a brand.

Brioni and Kiton are brands and not tailoring houses.

You need to lay off the bourbon
post #158 of 210
Must be true 'cos Artists are notoriously bad spellers. Professionals, on the other hand...
post #159 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Reeves View Post
Well I don't think qualifications really matter in Art. Iwas trying to say it's one of those things were you are an Artist or you aren't. It's defies simple explanation like Dandysism.

I did go on about qualifications because Foo likes to grill me on qualifications.

I studied Graphic Arts at Leeds Metropolitan which was the most applied for Graphic design (Graphic Arts is a more current Term) course in Europe at the time. None of us ended doing Graphics hardly. Some freinds of mine became a band called the Kaiser Cheifs, some became party planners and I even know one undertaker.

Incidently Marc Almond was expelled from the same course back in the day for his violent performance art that involved nailing budgies to planks of wood.

I had a great teacher though called Mo Smith. She was in the same class as Ossie Clarke at the Royal College and they were lifetime freinds and Collegues. Sadly she's no longer with us.

First, let me say that's awesome about the Kaiser Chiefs. Second, I think the misunderstanding on this thread is either people talking past each other (easily a top 5 problem on SF) or reading comprehension. It appears to me (and I could be misreading what you wrote) that what you are saying is that you are an artist, you studied art in school, and that you just happen to have chosen tailoring as your field. If your wife chose to be an attorney instead of sculpting, she'd still be an artist, albeit one who practices law for a living.

As a bystander, it certainly seems as though some people are particularly confrontational with you and while I enjoy the banter, the nature of it really says more about the haters than it does about you.

Finally, may I add that I don't consider myself an artist.
post #160 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Reeves View Post
it's no wonder you have so few proffesionals on these threads. Goodbye.

I'd have to have one cretin who joined here this month run you off David
post #161 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tidybeard View Post
Not to be confrontational but if the client picks the fabric and details of the shirt (collar, cuffs, buttons, etc.) and you send these details to someone else in England to make the shirt, I'm not sure it's fair to complain if the client doesn't want your name in it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Reeves View Post
it's no wonder you have so few proffesionals on these threads. Goodbye.
My apologies David, it was not my intention to offend you. I raised the point because I had exactly the same discussion with my tailor before Christmas when I ordered some shirts. I've used him for a few suits but this was the first shirt order and when the shirts came they had no maker label in them. I asked why and he explained that the shirts are made by someone else in England and he doesn't feel it fair to put his own name in them, a point with which I agreed after some consideration. I have no idea whether he considers himself an artist. It's only discussion though - it would be no fun if everyone had the same opinion....
post #162 of 210
^^

I think anyone who take pride in their work would like their name to be associated with the product or service provided irrespective of whether it is artistry, crafstmanship or manufacture.

Doesnt Patek like to put their name on their product though of course they are a company who manufacture watches rather than da Vinci.
post #163 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by aj_del View Post
^^ I think anyone who take pride in their work would like their name to be associated with the product or service provided irrespective of whether it is artistry, crafstmanship or manufacture. Doesnt Patek like to put their name on their product though of course they are a company who manufacture watches rather than da Vinci.
Fair point on having associating your name with your work. I'm not sure that the Patek analogy is the same thing though - firstly Patek is a company rather than an individual and secondly I believe they do (very nearly) everything from design and marketing to manufacturing and servicing in-house, with their own people - employed directly by the company. My own example is that recently we had some curtains installed at home. Our house is quite old and there are some odd shaped windows - we certainly couldn't get them "off the rack". A lady (Anne) came to our house with some fabric books and measured all the nooks and crannies. We chose the fabrics and the detailing of the curtains and then Anne sent the measurements and additional information to a factory for the curtains to be made. When the curtains were ready one or two didn't quite fit properly and Anne handled the liaison between us and the factory for the amendments. When they were finished, we installed them ourselves. Anne handled the payment. Would it have been fair for the curtains to have had a label in saying "Bespoke Curtains by Anne"? Probably fine legally but I personally don't feel like it would be a fair representation of who did the work. If Anne had made the curtains and carried the necessary alterations personally then I would be happier with her having her name on them. I do not know whether she is trained in curtain-making or whether she has the actual ability to do the work. To me this is irrelevant because she didn't. Just my opinion but there is a huge amount of variance in the bespoke clothing world and since I have personal experience I feel I am entitled to it. YMMV, of course.
post #164 of 210
^^ In the example you have provided I dont think Anne should have a bespoke badge on your curtains. Further, I dont know what is the modus operandi that David employs for his work. My point was only related to David feeling hurt when a customer who has been very difficult particularly insists that the garment not carry a maker's label.
post #165 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by aj_del View Post
My point was only related to David feeling hurt when a customer who has been very difficult particularly insists that the garment not carry a maker's label.
Agree with this and can understand the hurt. I'm also hoping David doesn't go as this type of discussion is what we're here for.
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