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Sea Shepherd's new boat vs Japanese Whalers - Page 11

post #151 of 162
1/26/10 at 11:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by edmorel View Post
I...nor do I think we should disregard cultures/traditions which are different from ours
Go go cultural relativism? Yeah, uhh...no. Some values are (or, at least, should be) transcendent. This is one of the stupidest things I've ever seen you post. No disrespect.

Quote:
why the phuck would I want to talk to Flipper or care what he would have to say about anything?
I'm 99.9% sure this question is flamebait, but it saddens me to know that there are people out there who *actually* think like this.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Augusto86 View Post
I can't believe I came out of SF semi-retirement to argue about fucking whales.
Frankly, sir, I can think of few better (or, at least, nobler) reasons.



I must admit that, were I to learn something horribly tragic had happened to the Japanese whaling vessel...while I would not be pleased per se, I most certainly not shed a tear for anyone on board. Today, whaling is almost universally distasteful practice which is, frankly, untenable. The only situation in which I could see the murder of a likely-sentient entity having the slightest whisper of justifiability is in a life-or-death/it-or-me, or a kill-it-or-starve-to-death scenario. Whaling, today, could never be justified with the starvation argument. Nor could it be so with the former argument either.

Whaling, like so many other horrible institutions from mankind's past, is an enterprise that has outlived it's usefulness and justifiability. The time has come for whaling to be banned planet-wide (granting exception only to genuine, and critical scientific research wherein the harvesting of an occasional individual is an absolute and unavoidable necessity).

PS: Sea Shepard are still a bunch of douchy fags, though.
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post #152 of 162
1/27/10 at 12:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Surfrider View Post
The only situation in which I could see the murder of a likely-sentient entity having the slightest whisper of justifiability is in a life-or-death/it-or-me, or a kill-it-or-starve-to-death scenario.
I wish people would just get over the "smart" thing. Pigs are probably smarter than whales. They are, for all intensive purposes ranked just behind primates in terms of problem solving ability and etc. They outperform primates in many analytical and dexterity based learning tests, even though they don't have hands/opposable digits. Octopodes have been known to use tools in the wild. They can leave their natural environment to hunt. They are excellent problem solvers as well. People still eat them. This "evil Japanese whaling" argument is a case of xenophobia masquerading as social conscience. It doesn't stand up to any sort of unbiased critical thinking. Human beings kill and eat animals. Until we all go vegan (and no, I think that's stupid, thank you very much) we will continue to kill and eat animals. Japanese whalers are not hunting whales to the brink of extinction. They are not recklessly eradicating a species. (of whale. Tuna on the other hand - arguably a more critical link in the food chain is being overfished, largely for the sake of the sushi industry) So you don't understand why whales are hunted for meat? Fine. Don't understand. I don't understand why some countries eat dog, cat, monkey, pigeon, rat, human, foie gras, or whatever. It doesn't mean I'm upset at them for doing it.
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post #153 of 162
1/27/10 at 1:08am
Surfrider,

Go Dude! We are out of the Dark Ages (maybe that's too optimistic), but we can be more responsible. It's just finding the right vehicle or media which can effectively make a difference. It is also knowing something is right or wrong. One can point at culture and/or tradition and use that to justify anything. As for whales on the brink of extinction, well had it not been for the responsibility of a few, they probably would be. Same with tuna. But closer looks, thank God for the media or a few brave souls (as stupid as they can be at times) do make a difference.

Does that mean 'go vegan'? You mean like India, where cows are sacred and people starve? That's culture and tradition. I think it is just a balance.
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post #154 of 162
1/27/10 at 1:18am
Quote:
I wish people would just get over the "smart" thing. Pigs are probably smarter than whales. They are, for all intensive purposes ranked just behind primates in terms of problem solving ability and etc. They outperform primates in many analytical and dexterity based learning tests, even though they don't have hands/opposable digits. Octopodes have been known to use tools in the wild. They can leave their natural environment to hunt. They are excellent problem solvers as well. People still eat them. This "evil Japanese whaling" argument is a case of xenophobia masquerading as social conscience. It doesn't stand up to any sort of unbiased critical thinking. Human beings kill and eat animals. Until we all go vegan (and no, I think that's stupid, thank you very much) we will continue to kill and eat animals. Japanese whalers are not hunting whales to the brink of extinction. They are not recklessly eradicating a species. (of whale. Tuna on the other hand - arguably a more critical link in the food chain is being overfished, largely for the sake of the sushi industry) So you don't understand why whales are hunted for meat? Fine. Don't understand. I don't understand why some countries eat dog, cat, monkey, pigeon, rat, human, foie gras, or whatever. It doesn't mean I'm upset at them for doing it.
+1 and it might not be any better going vegan either. Plants might be smarter mammals, but in a different way. Many people think eating plants is no harm, as if a life is not taken, but that`s just denial in my opinion. Even if you are a vegan, you are taking another life so you can live.
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post #155 of 162
1/27/10 at 1:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tailsman View Post
Surfrider,

Go Dude! We are out of the Dark Ages (maybe that's too optimistic), but we can be more responsible. It's just finding the right vehicle or media which can effectively make a difference. It is also knowing something is right or wrong. One can point at culture and/or tradition and use that to justify anything. As for whales on the brink of extinction, well had it not been for the responsibility of a few, they probably would be. Same with tuna. But closer looks, thank God for the media or a few brave souls (as stupid as they can be at times) do make a difference.

Does that mean 'go vegan'? You mean like India, where cows are sacred and people starve? That's culture and tradition. I think it is just a balance.

Of course you are referring to the balance viewed from your eyes, but yes, it is just a balance.

Whales are not extinct anymore, and the numbers they are catching are "responsible." The balance is good, so this should not be an issue.
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post #156 of 162
1/27/10 at 1:24am
Yeah, thought about the vegan thing, too. Lord only knows, sometimes we as humans think we are all mighty and know everything. Well, looking around, we haven't solved a lot of things.

It is a balance, more respect, more being a bit more aware.
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post #157 of 162
1/27/10 at 10:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tailsman View Post
Actually, I don't eat tuna. But you are right about nets. Nasty thing. I've never been into delicacies.

I ate three nets for dinner last night, delicacy or not they are nasty and stringy.
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post #158 of 162
1/27/10 at 10:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Surfrider View Post
Go go cultural relativism? Yeah, uhh...no. Some values are (or, at least, should be) transcendent. This is one of the stupidest things I've ever seen you post. No disrespect.
.

and exactly what values are transcedent? i personally like the sacredness of the cow
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post #159 of 162
1/30/10 at 4:30am

Paul Watson is a moron. that makes the show fun to watch. i do agree that those waters should be patrolled by officials and that the regulations in place should be enforced. fucking asians are overfishing the seas.


Edited by jrmy0641 - 2/17/12 at 6:04pm
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post #160 of 162
1/30/10 at 6:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrmy0641 View Post
Paul watson is a moron. that makes the show fun to watch. i do agree that those waters should be patrolled by officials and that the regulations in place should be inforced. fucking asians are overfishing the seas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fishing...try_by_country

Yeah, damit That Asian country called USA seems to be in 5th
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post #161 of 162
1/30/10 at 6:18am
See what I meant about xenophobia? That's a secret code word for racism, by the way.
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post #162 of 162
2/2/10 at 5:19am
I hate whaling, but it's their culture. Everything in moderation. A pair of whales spy a whaling ship. "Let's empty our blow-holes under the ship at the same time. Maybe we can make it turn over and sink." Sure enough, they blast the bottom of the whaler and cause it to capsize. Most of the whale hunters survive, however, and the whales see them swimming like mad for shore. "Let's go after them," says the enraged male, "and gobble them up before they reach the beach." He charges toward the whale hunters, but pulls up when he realizes the female is not following him. "What's wrong?" he asks. "Look," she says, "I don't mind a blow job now and then, but I absolutely refuse to swallow seamen."
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