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Dress and elitism - Page 3

post #31 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sator
There is a lot of truth to this sentiment. After the French Revolution wearing excessively decorated silk habits became a thing of the past and even wearing a shirt with ruffles was a symbolic gesture that suggested anti-Republican sympathies. This has gone so far now that people wear t-shirts and jeans as though they were some sort of anonymous Mao suit. The advertisements call this 'individuality' and the masses accept this with unquestioning faith. We risk entering into an age where everyone is 'equal' by virtue of being equally dishevelled and unrecognisably the same - all massed produced clones 'Made in China'. It is in truth something degrading - even dehumanising.
The advertising industry calls enthusiasts and drivers of vintage/classic cars, "progressive nonconformists". Marketing majors, beware. It's similar to those Urban Outfitters "bohemians" and their department store vintage.
post #32 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sator
There is a lot of truth to this sentiment. After the French Revolution wearing excessively decorated silk habits became a thing of the past and even wearing a shirt with ruffles was a symbolic gesture that suggested anti-Republican sympathies. This has gone so far now that people wear t-shirts and jeans as though they were some sort of anonymous Mao suit. The advertisements call this 'individuality' and the masses accept this with unquestioning faith. We risk entering into an age where everyone is 'equal' by virtue of being equally dishevelled and unrecognisably the same - all massed produced clones 'Made in China'. It is in truth something degrading - even dehumanising.

This has been going on in the world for a very long time. The modern lounge/business suit itself is a less formal derivative of the Frock Coat. The Tuxedo is a less formal version of White Tie. Why is it surprising to see that continue? One day it will likely change, or our fashion may change entirely. For all we know the business leaders of 200 years from now will be wearing togas.
post #33 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aureus
This has been going on in the world for a very long time. The modern lounge/business suit itself is a less formal derivative of the Frock Coat. The Tuxedo is a less formal version of White Tie. Why is it surprising to see that continue? One day it will likely change, or our fashion may change entirely. For all we know the business leaders of 200 years from now will be wearing togas.


The question is whether as a result of the French Revolution and the Industrial Revolution there has been a process of increased clone like massed produced uniformity - a distinct degradation of eloquent humanity. In Ancient Rome, the toga was a status symbol that only Roman citizens were entitled to wear. I do feel for one that the Industrial and French Revolutions have resulted in a swing toward mass uniformity of a kind unprecedented in the history of the world. If you go on the streets of Rome, New York, London, Sydney or Beijing you see people wearing the same t-shirt and jeans as though it were a proscribed industrial uniform. You are welcome to disagree but I happen to think that this may be a historically unique event, rather than the 'same old process of change' that has been continuing for millennia.
post #34 of 48
Of course, I also read an article a few years ago (in Forbes I believe) that pointed out that the only people who are still wearing suits are those of us who have to work for a living. They made the claim that you could spot middle-class people by the fact that they were still wearing suits and ties while the truly rich (upper-class) have moved away from that and wear mostly casual clothes (albeit expensive clothing) on a day-to-day basis.

It clearly wasn't talking about what people wear to special events, but specifically for going about their day-to-day business.

Definitely made me wonder...
post #35 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradford
Of course, I also read an article a few years ago (in Forbes I believe) that pointed out that the only people who are still wearing suits are those of us who have to work for a living. They made the claim that you could spot middle-class people by the fact that they were still wearing suits and ties while the truly rich (upper-class) have moved away from that and wear mostly casual clothes (albeit expensive clothing) on a day-to-day basis.

It clearly wasn't talking about what people wear to special events, but specifically for going about their day-to-day business.

Definitely made me wonder...

I had heard something like that as well. Probably from the same article. It's likely that anyone who doesnt have to wear a suit for work reasons will wear casual clothing or, if they do suit up, more fashion forward as if to say "I dont have to wear a suit but when I do it's not gonna be my dad's suit" (assuming they're on the younger side of the age spectrum, can't see a 60 yr old man in Dolce Gabanna)
post #36 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by poorsod
I was wondering if this in a way holds true in America today because even well educated people are not taught how to dress and whether this labels you as a brahmin or as a pariah. Of course the very rich and very powerful can be exceptions because they can do whatever they like.

I'd say absolutely not. There are plenty of well educated, and very well off people who have no idea how to dress themselves well.
post #37 of 48
Most Americans don't know how to dress well. But most Americans know how to dress much better than they do. For various reasons - such as fear of making the wrong impression, lack of money or time, and lack of concern for others - they cannot or will not do so.
post #38 of 48
Maybe they need an image consultant...
post #39 of 48
this thread reminds me of when my grandfather, after working out in the yard all day, decided to go buy a car, wearing overalls and no shoes. he visited several dealerships with a paper grocery bag full of cash, and bought a new mercedes benz (paying full sticker price) from the first person who acknolwedged his existence. I think it was the 3rd or 4th dealership he went to.
post #40 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensimageconsultant
Most Americans don't know how to dress well. But most Americans know how to dress much better than they do. For various reasons - such as fear of making the wrong impression, lack of money or time, and lack of concern for others - they cannot or will not do so.


Most people dont know how to dress well. I have to say Americans are the best study because they arent saddled with a lot of restrictive social associations. And Americans want to dress well, they just need the proper advice. Thats collective good advice where there isnt a need to sell what's stocked or that isnt solely the personal taste and purview of the advice giver.

But first you have to decide what you want. Do you want to use clothes to get ahead in bidnez (or the effect clothes have on opthers) or for the pure sake of enjoying clothes and expressing yourself? Tension arises from the onset of the answer "Both".
post #41 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by designprofessor
I think at some base level its really an environmental question. What do you want to see when you are out in America? Its depressing to see on any given day or location the sheer amount of slob everywhere.(clothing and architecture) I don't think its elitist to have that basic visual assessment, but I do believe aesthetically, most could do better.

As Gandhi said, be the change that you want to see in the world...
post #42 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sator
If you go on the streets of Rome, New York, London, Sydney or Beijing you see people wearing the same t-shirt and jeans as though it were a proscribed industrial uniform.

It may just have been a slip of the keyboard, but if not, I suggest you learn the difference between "prescribed" and "proscribed." Few things would gladden my old heart more than to see T-shirt and jeans proscribed!
post #43 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by javyn
this thread reminds me of when my grandfather, after working out in the yard all day, decided to go buy a car, wearing overalls and no shoes. he visited several dealerships with a paper grocery bag full of cash, and bought a new mercedes benz (paying full sticker price) from the first person who acknolwedged his existence. I think it was the 3rd or 4th dealership he went to.

It seems to me that I'd rather dress appropriately, be served immediately, and be able to complete the transaction without visiting four dealerships.
post #44 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradford
Of course, I also read an article a few years ago (in Forbes I believe) that pointed out that the only people who are still wearing suits are those of us who have to work for a living. They made the claim that you could spot middle-class people by the fact that they were still wearing suits and ties while the truly rich (upper-class) have moved away from that and wear mostly casual clothes (albeit expensive clothing) on a day-to-day basis.

It clearly wasn't talking about what people wear to special events, but specifically for going about their day-to-day business.

Definitely made me wonder...
Sounds like an interesting article. I wonder if it is around anywhere online to read.
post #45 of 48
As a 26 year old I find the movement towards casual (read slovenly) dress very disappointing. I was reading through one of Flussers texts this weekend and he recounted a time, several decades prior, in which the New York Times offices first allowed sportcoats as suitable daily dress in liu of a suit and the controversy among the staff that resulted.

Contrast that to today when memo's need to be sent out to professionals reminding them that flip-flops are not suitable to see patients in.

My question is, where can we really go from here??? Is a return to formality even possible?

Somedays, I think fondly of a time in the distant future when I can dress as I do now and not receive stares or inquiries from others as to why I am dressed nicely on that particular day.

MrR
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