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Keller - Page 2

post #16 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post
Keller is hilarious. I got his new ad hoc book for Christmas. This is supposed to be the "simple" book, geared to traditional home recipes. Right. Keller is constitutionally incapable of doing simple. The burger recipe, for instance, has you buy three different cuts of beef and grind it yourself. He says that to brown a prime rib you need to go to Home Depot and get a welder's blow torch. I am doing the short ribs recipe now, and it is more complicated than the one from Balthazar (which already has ten million steps).

The Platonic ideal of a Keller recipe would, I think, begin by telling you the latitude and longitude of the farm you need to buy in order to grow the ingredients. It would proceed from there to tell you what type of grass to plant, and the breed of cow to raise.

Does Keller explain the rationale behind the three cuts of meat for the burger?

Also, home cooks can be successful with these very complex recipes if they understand the science behind the steps/processes and also know what the end product of those steps are supposed to look/feel/taste/smell like. For example, buttermilk biscuits are easy enough on paper, but you need to know the dough's ideal consistency as well as how long you should let it sit there, before putting in the oven, for the baking soda to do its job. You take that simple process, like making biscuits, and multiply it by several times to result in a Keller dish.
post #17 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by HORNS View Post
Does Keller explain the rationale behind the three cuts of meat for the burger?
Flavor.

His chocolate chip cookie recipe calls for two different types of chocolate as well.
post #18 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQgeek View Post
That's why I decided to learn to cook. I enjoy eating and i especially enjoy eating out. I like going to high-end restaurants where the food is put first, before any other considerations. However, I quickly realized that when you spent in the more regularly affordable range (for smalltimers) of $100-150, the food was generally mediocre, and I started asking myself why I was paying that much for something I could do at home. And at home you don't pay the mark-up on the accompanying wine either, so you can drink better stuff when the mood suits you.

Where were you paying $100 for food that was mediocre? Did you frequent steak houses?
post #19 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by HORNS View Post
Does Keller explain the rationale behind the three cuts of meat for the burger?


Texture and flavor. Watch Blumenthal's in search of perfection when he tries to make the perfect burger. It's insane.
post #20 of 169
i'd be the first to agree that you can eat better at home than at most restaurants ... that's how i make my living, after all. but in defense of ad hoc ... you don't buy a keller book if you're looking for "joy of cooking." he is a detail-obsessed guy who always is willing to put in an extra 20% effort even if it only results in 5% improvement. And I will add that we tested that book pretty thoroughly and though there was a lot of PITA steps, everything paid off ... the dishes really were better for it. whether they were enough better that we'd do it again is questionable. but as my critic said, she was a better cook for having done it at least once.
post #21 of 169
Thread Starter 
I am not complaining about Keller, to be clear. I love Keller. That is, I love his books and his food. I just think it is funny how he defines "simple."

This review captures what I was trying to say:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...802924636.html
post #22 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by SField View Post
Where were you paying $100 for food that was mediocre? Did you frequent steak houses?

Not gonna make a list, but a fair amount of restaurants that "regular" people think are good. My basis for comparison just covers a wider spectrum than a lot of peoples and I tend to make my comparisons on an absolute scale rather than a value based one.

FWIW, the only steakhouse i've been to in montreal was Le Queue de Cheval and it was disappointing. Then again, when I go to a restaurant and pay that kind of money, I generally do not choose steakhouses, and I almost never choose steak at any restaurant.
post #23 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post
I am not complaining about Keller, to be clear. I love Keller. That is, I love his books and his food. I just think it is funny how he defines "simple." This review captures what I was trying to say: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...802924636.html
Personally, that's what I love about the guy. Keller has been a huge influence on me in the kitchen. I really adopted his obsessive, detail-oriented approach, as my own, and definitely think it makes all the difference, though you do have to pace yourself and be organized if you don't want to be exhausted when you're done. I can't count the number of times i've come home from work and decided to cook something out of Bouchon and ended up eating at 1am. And on that note, I think i'm gonna start some boeuf bourguinon to eat in a couple of days' time.
post #24 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post
I am not complaining about Keller, to be clear. I love Keller. That is, I love his books and his food. I just think it is funny how he defines "simple."

This review captures what I was trying to say:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...802924636.html

understood. the thing i've learned knowing keller as long as i have is that the same thing that makes him probably the greatest chef/restaurateur in the us is a obsessiveness that would make me absolutely insane. the great thing is that he's at a point now where he recognizes it and is able to laugh at it ... but if he changed it, his restaurants wouldn't be what they are today.
fyi, here's what my critic had to say about the book
post #25 of 169
Thread Starter 
I have been doing the recipes in the FLC since 1999. I screw them up far more often than I get them right. They are still fun to do.

One thing that I do not do, I don't make Keller's stock recipe any more. It might be better than mine (a very traditional approach) but it is frankly far too much work, and the marginal improvement is not worth it to me.

The "quick sauces" concept is genius, however, even if it does not work exactly as advertised.
post #26 of 169
this thread got me thinking ... here's a (unfortunately photo-free) piece i did on keller 10 years ago, before he had come into his full keller-ness.
post #27 of 169
Quote:
And it's expensive. The fixed-price dinners start at $70, and the chef's nine-course tasting menu, which 60% of the customers order, runs $95, not including wine, tax, tip or any surcharge for foie gras and other exotic ingredients.
My my my... Chef Keller, how some things change.
post #28 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post
I have been doing the recipes in the FLC since 1999. I screw them up far more often than I get them right. They are still fun to do.

One thing that I do not do, I don't make Keller's stock recipe any more. It might be better than mine (a very traditional approach) but it is frankly far too much work, and the marginal improvement is not worth it to me.

The "quick sauces" concept is genius, however, even if it does not work exactly as advertised.

i have to say i don't think i've ever prepared a full recipe from TFL. but there are a lot of the subrecipes that i use all the time (and actually, i think that's the way he intended it). the sauce gribiche is pure genius.

some of the dreariest dinners i've ever been too have been when home cooks decided to cook out of TFL. it's just way too much work and there is absolutely nothing a guest can do to make them feel like it was worth it. nothing like leaving a house feeling like you've disappointed your host.
post #29 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarquisMagic View Post
It may be possible to "replicate" great food from great recipes, but not the dining experience.
Actually, most dining "experiences" suck. There's nothing like eating good food in the comfort of your own home. If and when I become a bigtimer, e.g. Oprah status, I'd hire the best chef I could afford and let him run my kitchen.
post #30 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkNWorn View Post
Actually, most dining "experiences" suck. There's nothing like eating good food in the comfort of your own home. If and when I become a bigtimer, e.g. Oprah status, I'd hire the best chef I could afford and let him run my kitchen.

How can you say that? You're going to the wrong restaurants, my friend. But, maybe you're complaining about the same things that made me want to learn to cook. You don't need to be a bigtimer to have great dining experiences once in a while, just do your due diligence before you pick a restaurant.
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