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eBay/Paypal "moral" dilemma

post #1 of 12
12/30/09 at 8:29pm
Thread Starter 
Here is the story... *not disclosing the item on the off-chance anyone involved on the eBay bid is here*. Also I'm as unbiased as possible as there's nothing to gain here, just looking for advice from any veterans. I recently sold and shipped an item on eBay that is way undervalued. I listed the item at what was probably 80% off of what you'd normally pay... on the buy & sell section of this site and easily 95% off retail value. The reason is that the item is damaged - and I was very clear with this in both the item description and zoomed-in photos. I really wasn't expecting it to sell at all, but eBay pulls through and people actually bid up on the item up to what you'd normally expect to move it at on this forum's Buy & Sell. Buyer has a lot of positive feedback and pays instantly. Unfortunately he's outside of North America, and while I added a shipping surcharge for areas outside of US/Canada, I didn't account for his region being *that* incredibly expensive and relatively remote. Here is where I acknowledge my mistake #1 - I immediately shipped it on the day of payment without reconfirming that the buyer is well aware the item is damaged (despite the item description saying so in bold, and pictorial evidence). Mistake #2 - prompt air shipping to his country happened to be so incredibly expensive that I couldn't afford tracking (here in Canada, it's really bizarre - tracking only comes with surface shipping, which takes 8 weeks, or you basically have to pay nearly triple digits for Xpresspost shipping which comes with tracking). What I worry about now is the buyer receiving the item, having either underestimated its level of damage or being unaware entirely of its condition. Then as I have no seller protection, he files a Paypal dispute and claims all my money back. As my shipping was about $50, it would be pretty ridiculous for the buyer to ask for a refund and ship my product back - and that's if he's nice. He could very well just take both the item and the money. Is there anything I should do now? I sympathize with the buyer - he really paid more than he should have for a damaged item, but I have to protect myself as well. I did ship the item and he did pay with all the information he needs from the item description, and I do not want to bear responsibility if he suddenly doesn't "like" the item. I've unlinked all my banking and credit card information from Paypal - and even then, my bank account is just a placeholder so there isn't much they can withdraw from it. Are there any other measures I can take (ie, even close the Paypal account) to protect myself from dispute and Paypal leeching money away, or am I being overly paranoid and unethical?
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post #2 of 12
12/30/09 at 8:39pm
I don't trust the Ebay/Paypal setup. They scare buyers into believing that nothing is safer than Paypal and convince them that it's the only way to do business online. They even recently cut out money orders as a form of payment on ebay listings. They will do or say just about anything to take a bigger cut of your sales. I have never been a fan of paypal due to the potential danger of chargebacks and low down buyers. There is absolutely no protection for sellers. Craigslist is your best option.
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post #3 of 12
12/30/09 at 9:07pm
thats how paypal works. no tracking, no chance for you to win that dispute.
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post #4 of 12
12/30/09 at 11:02pm
Open a bank account with a $100 and withdraw $90. Then change that to your PayPal bank. That way the most they can hit you for is $10.
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post #5 of 12
12/31/09 at 12:18am
if you were very clear about disclosing the damage i would expect the buyer not to be a total cretin and know that before he/she bid on it. that said, i just drove on the I-95 today, which reminded me how many cretins are loose in society today, so i would say hope for the best, but do protect yourself from the worst case scenario
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post #6 of 12
12/31/09 at 1:46am
Dont worry about it in advance... you did what you could regarding the flaws of the item, so you are good there. Did you ship it to a non-english speaking country where it could have been misunderstood? Were your pics "hidden" in the auction? Ive sent 100's of packages with no tracking and maybe 2 or 3 got "lost". Nothing too much to worry about.
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post #7 of 12
12/31/09 at 1:50am
just out of curiosity, can you explain a bit more about surface shipping having tracking? I work at a canada post outlet, and I've never heard or seen anything that would indicate that shipping via surface would include tracking.
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post #8 of 12
1/1/10 at 6:21am
Ok, this is what will happen. IF the dude initiates a claim you will lose and Paypal will make your account negative and ultimately freeze it. Since you have removed the connection with your checking account and stuff you will be fine. The thing is, Paypal will just take any other sale you make to bring your account positive. You can decide to just screw paypal and they will ultimately kick you off and try and "collect" the money. They have no basis to collect since paypal is just an intermediary that acts as if they are a bank. I used to sell a lot on ebay, had a bunch of scam claims initiated. Fought them the best I could, but Paypal ended up siding against me anyway. Made my account negative to the tune of almost a grand. Decided it wasn't worth it so I told paypal to shove it. They turned it over to NCO trying to collect, wrote them a nice letter stating why I didn't owe paypal anything and cc'd the states attorney general who actually followed up and told them to never contact me again since the "debt" is invalid. I to this day can't use paypal, but I don't really care. http://www.paypalsucks.com/
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post #9 of 12
1/1/10 at 7:06pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpooPoker View Post
Dont worry about it in advance... you did what you could regarding the flaws of the item, so you are good there. Did you ship it to a non-english speaking country where it could have been misunderstood? Were your pics "hidden" in the auction? Ive sent 100's of packages with no tracking and maybe 2 or 3 got "lost". Nothing too much to worry about.

It was a non-english speaking country, and frankly I'm not sure if the buyer speaks any english since we made no direct communication. Not sure what is meant by a hidden pic... I used the free eBay templates at cgwebsolutions to post multiple pictures, but the headline pic clearly shows damage anyway, just not to full extent and from every angle.


Quote:
just out of curiosity, can you explain a bit more about surface shipping having tracking? I work at a canada post outlet, and I've never heard or seen anything that would indicate that shipping via surface would include tracking.

The workers basically gave me 3 options:

-International surface, which was a measly $18 but takes up to 8 weeks (ridiculous) but
somehow can include a tracking option.
-International air, something to the tune of $36, no tracking but pretty quick (10 days)
-Xpresspost, roughly $80+, includes tracking/signature confirmation/insurance/all the bells and whistles and arrives in a few days. I would've rather refunded the money and kept the item in this case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyD1982 View Post
Ok, this is what will happen. IF the dude initiates a claim you will lose and Paypal will make your account negative and ultimately freeze it. Since you have removed the connection with your checking account and stuff you will be fine. The thing is, Paypal will just take any other sale you make to bring your account positive. You can decide to just screw paypal and they will ultimately kick you off and try and "collect" the money. They have no basis to collect since paypal is just an intermediary that acts as if they are a bank.

I used to sell a lot on ebay, had a bunch of scam claims initiated. Fought them the best I could, but Paypal ended up siding against me anyway. Made my account negative to the tune of almost a grand. Decided it wasn't worth it so I told paypal to shove it. They turned it over to NCO trying to collect, wrote them a nice letter stating why I didn't owe paypal anything and cc'd the states attorney general who actually followed up and told them to never contact me again since the "debt" is invalid.

I to this day can't use paypal, but I don't really care.

http://www.paypalsucks.com/

Great to hear a firsthand experience. I'm sure on a rare occasion that you need to use Paypal to make a payment, you can use a friend's or relative's account. If this turns out badly I am just going to sell locally via Craigslist from here on or via SF based on its good community. The eBay/Paypal tandem is too much of a PITA when things work against you.
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post #10 of 12
1/1/10 at 7:43pm
Remove all your financial information from Paypal, just in case you lose. That's about as much as you can do. Yes, Paypal is a huge fucking PITA when things go wrong. That said, I've bought a lot of stuff from eBay and other websites and everything has gone relatively smoothly. So, for the most part, I think it functions fairly well.
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post #11 of 12
1/1/10 at 10:16pm
You should've tracked the item. As others have pointed out, you are screwed if he claims he never got it. Could you have used UPS or Fedex?
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post #12 of 12
1/22/10 at 5:35pm
Thread Starter 
Update 22 days later...

Buyer actually left positive feedback definitely feel bad for him but maybe he liked the rugged nature of the item? I'm all for getting fair market value on an item as a seller but it frankly doesn't sit well with me to vastly overprice an item and have it sell. Oh well, "one man's trash is another man's treasure" as the adage goes.
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