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Collar pin survey - Page 3

post #31 of 44
I just received one for Christmas from my girlfriend's mother. It belonged to my girlfriend's grandfather. I was very flattered since her mother told me that I'm the only man she knows who could pull off a collar pin, but I've yet to work it into an outfit. I agree that it definitely calls for a vest.
post #32 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Film Noir Buff View Post
I have seen many old movies where the well dressed characters wear it in a neat, secured, tight manner.

I suppose you can wear it any way you like but the smartest way is a neat, secured way. I don't know that there is a Supreme Court case settling the matter

I don't know either.

Probably many of the vintage pictures I've seen were candid shots of less than the most fastidious dressers. Although many people dressed well in the 1930s, not everyone was even close to Astaire or the Prince of Wales. A favorite book of mine for pictures is The American Songbook by Ken Bloom. It's a 320 page big hardcover full of photographs of songwriters, singers, actors and musicians. Practically ever shot claimed to be from the thirties has a man with a collar pin. By the 1940s, the trend seems to have ceased. Maybe the shirts got stiffer interlining, or maybe guys got tired of the ritual--I don't know...

In the book there is a fascinating photo of Jerome Kern and George Gershwin. Gershwin's got a conservative looking DB and his collar is pinned, probably closer to the aesthetic you prefer. Kern's wild outfit: (blue?) fine stripe SB jacket that's way too long with all three buttons fastened, light color chalk stripe flannel trousers with lots of break, wingtip spectators, and super wide flamboyant tie. And, his jacket sleeve buttons are undone with the sleeve rolled way up, reminiscent of a modern men's fashion mag ad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Film Noir Buff View Post
I had a conversation with someone who worked on this historical production and others and this was brought up. It was a trend during the 1990s for English actors to eschew anything tight around the neck and it had little to do with the character. It was felt that the overall look was wrong.

Whoever did the wardrobe for Jeeves and Wooster did a commendable job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Film Noir Buff View Post
I have some snap shots of what I feel is a nattier way to fasten the collar. I may repost them over at Devil's Island at some point with some text. Part of the problem is finding a pin short enough. Both the safety pin version and the eyelet screw bar version need to be short enough, most commercial versions are too long. I think I got the guy from highland park to make a shorter version.

http://www.highlandpark.com/x4/ElegantJewelry/15w.htm

For 14k gold

http://www.highlandpark.com/x4/Elega...hlandpark_.jpg

For Gold filled:

http://www.highlandpark.com/x4/Elega...hlandpark_.jpg



Silver


http://www.highlandpark.com/x4/Elega...hlandpark_.jpg

Thank you for this information!

I'll look forward to seeing the pictures.
post #33 of 44
This reminds me I have a collar bar I need to add to my sales thread. I'll try to do that tomorrow.
post #34 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlmusic View Post
I don't know either. Practically ever shot claimed to be from the thirties has a man with a collar pin. By the 1940s, the trend seems to have ceased. Maybe the shirts got stiffer interlining, or maybe guys got tired of the ritual--I don't know...
I think this was popular as early as the mid 1920s. I have never gotten a satisfactory answer as to why this trrend started. The answer could lie in apologizing for having a soft collar by pinning it. Why would it become wide spread? Many reasons and perhaps one was it being a top down society with people copying the style irrespective of the fact that it may cause long term damage to shirts. It was a style for men who didnt care about the longevity of their shirts. Not that this action damages your shirt irreperably but as a state of mind, if you follow? I think it basically disappeared during the 1960s but like any other trend it probably started dwindling as soon as it became popular. Maybe shirts became proportionately too expensive, maybe collar styles shifted, maybe it became dated and got further shoved aside by the sexual revolution? Probably no one element caused it's virtual demise. One thing that is interesting is that it is still recognized as a valid style; unlike say wearing a wing collar with a day suit.
post #35 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Film Noir Buff View Post
I think this was popular as early as the mid 1920s. I have never gotten a satisfactory answer as to why this trrend started. The answer could lie in apologizing for having a soft collar by pinning it. Why would it become wide spread? Many reasons and perhaps one was it being a top down society with people copying the style irrespective of the fact that it may cause long term damage to shirts. It was a style for men who didnt care about the longevity of their shirts. Not that this action damages your shirt irreperably but as a state of mind, if you follow? I think it basically disappeared during the 1960s but like any other trend it probably started dwindling as soon as it became popular. Maybe shirts became proportionately too expensive, maybe collar styles shifted, maybe it became dated and got further shoved aside by the sexual revolution? Probably no one element caused it's virtual demise. One thing that is interesting is that it is still recognized as a valid style; unlike say wearing a wing collar with a day suit.
I recently asked a shirtmaker to make a white shirt with a pre 1970s style soft unfused collar. He said, "sure, I know how to do it--that's old school, but you're not gonna like it." Being adventurous, I told him to bring it on. Now this is a sort of different collar from, say, a modern unfused Charvet or Turnbull and Asser shirt. Charvet, for example, apparently uses many layers of fabric for their collars and T & A use a very thick interlining. When the shirt came, it looked beautiful, and the collar had a great roll. I sent it to the laundry and it took them three tries to iron the collar without wrinkles and creases. The guy at the laundry has been ironing shirts for 30 years, and man, he was complaining. I tried to iron it myself, and it was tough. When the collar was perfectly ironed, it looked great. After a couple hours of average wear, it would start to look a bit droopy. The points would curl up even with collar stays. After that shirt experience, I can immediately spot that "look" in a vintage movie. I gave up and had the collar replaced with a more conventional one with a thick interlining. The shirt maker said, "I told you so!" He related how years ago he learned shirt making in Hollywood and worked at a place that made shirts for movie stars, Presidents, etc. Back then, important men would keep a stash of ironed shirts, many times changing them up to four times a day. The shirtmaker told me of past days, when "trained professionals" knew how to iron shirts properly. OK, so back to your theory--it makes perfect sense: a shirt with a detachable stiff collar is going to make a neat polished presentation. The way men wore vests and jackets, most everything would be covered but the collar. The rest of the shirt could be wrinkly, and no one in polite circles would ever know it. But those darn stiff collars are no fun, at least for me. So, men started to adopt the soft turndown collar in the early to mid 1920s. The vintage shirts I have seen from that time had some pretty floppy, impossible to iron collars. So maybe as you say, men were "apologizing for having a soft collar by pinning it." Why they gave up the collar pin for a completely floppy, mid-century appearance is unknown to me. I do think it's funny that the average modern department store shirt is in attitude more like a stiff collar shirt than the old school 1950s turndown collar shirt. That is, many modern men want a stiff, perfect looking collar, and are happy with heavily fused collars that require little ironing.
post #36 of 44
Etsy is a good place to find vintage collar pins. I just found a handful for under $5
post #37 of 44
I just watched Rocky III last night and he wore collar pins alot, they look really nice. I like his style in that movie, all MTM suits that fit perfectly.
post #38 of 44
found some pics...
LL
LL
post #39 of 44
post #40 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by larsrindsig View Post
I really think this look requires a three-piece suit or odd waistcoat (or at the very least a buttoned jacket). In this picture the tie just seems to hang freely for no reason and that neat effect you get when the tie stands proud of the shirt from being pushed outwards by the bar (which is the entire point of a collar bar/pin, in my book) is missing.
I wear one about once a week and almost never wear a vest. I find a collar pin (not a bar) works great with knit ties because the knit brings down the formality of the pin a bit. I'm wearing one now, actually.
post #41 of 44
I think that it's a kind of so-called "vintage" style. Looks stylish when somebody wears it...
post #42 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Film Noir Buff View Post
I think it basically disappeared during the 1960s but like any other trend it probably started dwindling as soon as it became popular. Maybe shirts became proportionately too expensive, maybe collar styles shifted, maybe it became dated and got further shoved aside by the sexual revolution? Probably no one element caused it's virtual demise. One thing that is interesting is that it is still recognized as a valid style; unlike say wearing a wing collar with a day suit.

I reckon the demise of the collar pin also had something to do with the gowing popularity and eventual dominance of the attached collar shirt. Remember that through the 30s even soft collars were generally detachable, and thus more easily replaced after a few too many punctures.

Mostly I think pins just went the way of any more extreme fashion. Let's face it--there's nothing "natural" about them. Myself, I love their brazen fastidiousness, and I often indulge when my context is indulgent, but I recognize that they are costumey and best appreciated in theory rather than practice.
post #43 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAY View Post
I reckon the demise of the collar pin also had something to do with the gowing popularity and eventual dominance of the attached collar shirt. Remember that through the 30s even soft collars were generally detachable, and thus more easily replaced after a few too many punctures. Mostly I think pins just went the way of any more extreme fashion. Let's face it--there's nothing "natural" about them. Myself, I love their brazen fastidiousness, and I often indulge when my context is indulgent, but I recognize that they are costumey and best appreciated in theory rather than practice.
But I think it went out with a whimper rather than a bang. People still recognize it as a look. Somehow is survives in the collective cultural mindset.
post #44 of 44
Bump! Anyone know where I can buy a 14k gold collar pin online? I've come across a couple sites but they seem less than reputable...
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