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Changes to B&S discussion - SOLD BUMPS ARE BANNED - Page 16

post #226 of 328
Want to see if my sig is active. EDIT: Yes!
post #227 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbris1 View Post
Doc, you've misread my post.

Think about it, how many times have you bought a NWT item only to have it not fit and not have the luxury of returning it to the seller? How many people have donated NWT items? Just because someone is an occasional seller, doesn't mean he's offering used items.

I have a pair of Varvatos pants for sale right now that are NWT. I have not worn them. I have offered a lot of items NWT that were unworn. I just bought a Polo Bradford whose trousers didn't fit me. I was able to send it back to the seller for a refund, but what if he had a no refund policy? I would have offered it here. See my point?

I'm not sure I follow. My "Purge" threads are a mix of items I've bought for myself that didn't work and items I bought to sell. From a buyer's perspective, why should they care which is which? I can't imagine many people are selling NWT stuff for a whole lot less than they think they could get out of it, regardless of why the item was purchased initially. (See the recent spate of $69-$79 Yoox shoes for $150-$250.) In that regard, NWT stuff that didn't work is no different than stuff that's been bought specifically to sell.
post #228 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbris1 View Post
The people who list stuff and blatantly state, "last bump before I return the item" or "latest Saks, Marshalls, Daffy's, Nordstrom haul" should be charged. Period.

I can guess which camp I belong in, and speaking for myself only, I'd be happy to pay a price to sell my stuff here and not have to deal with the headache of ebay.
post #229 of 328
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post
Hmmm... so, it seems that the main concern about the proposed new system would be that small sellers would be at a big disadvantage. Do you guys think that the solution might be to make the "pinned thread" option a more financially viable route for the big sellers (and also offer additional services for those sellers, like increased PM box sizes, which would further increase the benefits of buying into that system), so that small sellers would not have to compete with as many of the big guns? Remember that under the new system, we'd probably also increase the number of threads on each page as well.
For me, what Fok is saying here is the direction I'd probably head. It makes sense that a higher volume seller would want to pay a reasonable fee to get pinned at the top of the BS fora. This is a natural win for someone that does enough volume and needs their stuff seen. This is also a win for the smaller / one off seller that wants to stay visible. More time on the 1st page since bigger sellers wouldnt be bumping their threads down. I like the idea of a larger PM box. Personally, I'd be reluctant to upset the balance of the fora as it is. There is plenty of nice stuff, plenty of good deals. I wouldnt want to see that die. I'm afraid fees for everything would do that. Makes sense allow the sellers decide whether they want to pay a fee to be pinned, and allow everyone else to use the system as is today. I'd prefer to see all options ala carte. For example, a fee to be pinned for a day, maybe a week, or permanently via monthly fee. The size of the pinned section would have to grow and space would be limited, but this would work well IMO. Extending the size of the front page is also a win. I'd take that a step further and allow users to set their own limit. One guy may want to see 1000, another 100, etc. Its better for everyone this way since many of us want a long front page. A suggestion I have is for SF to host images for a fee. Eliminates the annoying hops you need to make to get stuff listed and would make the images people post more consistent.
post #230 of 328
alright /thread. Does nobody find this thread ironic?
post #231 of 328
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fcuknu View Post
alright /thread. Does nobody find this thread ironic?

The mods are asking us to comment.
post #232 of 328
so lets get this pinned or move it somewhere else.
post #233 of 328
What's the deal with the bump stigma here,

It's really not a big deal with a time limit,
I think y'all have been in SF too long
post #234 of 328
I agree. I think it is ridiculous that you have to price cut your item in order to bump it. I agree 100% that I dont want it look like SuperFuture, but a reasonable bump every now and then should be allowed. It could get out of order though, and make it harder to mod, so I guess it might be better to keep it the way it is. Who knows.
post #235 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by nahneun View Post
I think that would be better. No one should be disadvantaged because they can't pay to keep their thread up. If you offered a premium service for those who want it, I think that would be very fair. At the same time, I think repeat offenders of the rules should at least get temp bans from the B&S market, so there should be stricter enforcement of the rules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbris1 View Post
This all seems very simple to me.

We all know who the mainstay sellers are (they are basically here to sell items for profit) and who the people that are trying to recoup or pass on an item that doesn't work for them on to another member (the buyers who will not try to weasel out of a deal because of buyer's remorse or fit issues, or simply something they no longer have use for).

The two should be segregated at the hands of the public at large. If a person's activity is mostly in the B&S section, they should pay a premium for listing their wares. The others should be able to list for free. I think this would quell the taking advantage of PSAs, and the like.

The main reason I don't buy many items listed on B&S is because I know I can get to the store the seller bought it at and get it for the price they paid. Most of the items I have purchased have been from buyers who either no longer have a need for the item or it just doesn't work for them. The people who list stuff and blatantly state, "last bump before I return the item" or "latest Saks, Marshalls, Daffy's, Nordstrom haul" should be charged. Period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpooPoker View Post
Thinking out loud here, but maybe some options -

There seems to be a clear difference in needs between the occasional seller (closet cleaning once or twice a month, etc) and a high volume seller (new items at least once a week). What do you think about reconfiguring the structure of the B&S section by dividing it into a storefront section for high volume sellers and a section for one offs? The "store" section of the site would have options for pinning on the marquee, 1000 messages in the PM box, and maybe 50 or 100 items on the front page. A monthly nominal fee could be applied to list in the "store" section, where the one-off section would operate largely as it is now, fee free. Storefront sellers could have the option for a $1 bump to advertise drops, new items, etc. One off sellers can bump their items for free, but would have a limit of times per thread before it is locked, to prevent any gaming.

To clear up other technicalities, you can create another subfora for PSAs and ICs. When clicking on the "Buying and Selling" tab from the main page, you can have the option to choose which subfora to browse, or you can browse all new messages posted on one main page (so exposure is not limited to anyone who cant understand which tab to click).

Again, Im not sure how viable or possible any of this is, just thinking out loud. Anyone agree/disagree?

Any suggestions that will require more moderation are just not going to be implemented. It's really that simple, so there is no need to make these suggestions. The new system is going to be implemented so that we essentially have to do no moderation except to kill blatant spam. There is going to be a fee for bumps. There is a 99.99999% chance of this happening. The fee for bumps will make the original discussion of the thread - i.e. abuse of the system, moot. We will simply use the market to sort that out. If you have prices considerably higher than that of the competition, you can bump 100x, and it still won't sell, and you'll be out however much 100 bumps is worth.

There will also be no additional subfora, so please don't suggest any of those either. There will be a tag system. If you are too lazy to use it, well...

ICs will be the same as a sales thread, so you better be sure you want to sell something. There is already a subforum for WTB. In the future, if you post a WTB in the FS subforum, you'll probably just get banned. Yes, the WTB forum gets many fewer views, but other people have to deal with that too, and you are not a special flower.

There will be no segregation of B&S users. Whether you want to use the premium services (bumps, pinned threads, larger PM boxes, etc...) would depend on what they are worth to you.

The discussion here is how to make the forum useful for big and small sellers alike, and of course, to make the forum easier to use for buyers.
post #236 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by fcuknu View Post
so lets get this pinned or move it somewhere else.

Not unless you feel like paying for it.
post #237 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post
There is a 99.99999% chance of this happening.
Bad news for small sellers (like I was planning to be when I got around to listing all the stuff I've bought that doesn't fit), but not a huge surprise. It'll be the first paid bump system I've ever seen on a B&S forum. I'm interested to see how it works out.
post #238 of 328
I'm a software developer but unfortunately not in php. It should be feasible to prevent replies from bumping threads (I think it's quite important that people can post comments in fs threads as sometimes people have useful info with regards to their experience with last shapes and sizes etc). I'm wondering if it's possible to attach items for sale to a post with prices. When a poster wants to bump a post, they can choose to reduce the price of the item(s) by at least 10% (which would be free) or to bump the post without price drops (for which they would be charged a fee). If it's a question of money and revenue for the forum - I'm sure a lot of sellers would be happy to donate some kind of percentage of sales to the forum - I know I would. Just a few thoughts.
post #239 of 328
Thanks for your thoughts. You bring up some interesting and cogent points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StephenStyle View Post
I'm a software developer but unfortunately not in php.

It should be feasible to prevent replies from bumping threads (I think it's quite important that people can post comments in fs threads as sometimes people have useful info with regards to their experience with last shapes and sizes etc).

Yes, I'm pretty sure that this can be done. We have no desire to kill interactions in threads, which is one of the main benefits of a forum based marketplace. On the other hand, threads like this get tiresome, and the pay to bump system has the dual benefit of getting rid of such discussions, and allows us to derive some revenue from a marketplace that is clearly financially benefiting many sellers.

Quote:
I'm wondering if it's possible to attach items for sale to a post with prices. When a poster wants to bump a post, they can choose to reduce the price of the item(s) by at least 10% (which would be free) or to bump the post without price drops (for which they would be charged a fee).

The first is clearly doable (if you want to see an example, on a much less popular forum, google "honestmall"). However, the problem is that we would like to encourage sellers to use a single thread for multiple items. We are not trying to replicate Ebay. For the same reason, the
if 10% price drop then free bump
else bump = $1
algorithm isn't going to work.

Quote:
If it's a question of money and revenue for the forum - I'm sure a lot of sellers would be happy to donate some kind of percentage of sales to the forum - I know I would.
Just a few thoughts.

I toyed with the idea of doing Ebay lite at one point - i.e. no listing fees, but a final value sale fee that would be paid automatically (we would have our own checkout system.) Apart from the legal thorniness of this, it would get rid of the free form, rambling listings which I really see as part of the advantage of the current system. I find Ebay a PITA to use, besides being expensive.

And unfortunately, relying on people to pay for services out of the goodness of their hearts is only going to work when someone sprinkles fairy dust on Ed Morel.
post #240 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by tradernick View Post
Bad news for small sellers (like I was planning to be when I got around to listing all the stuff I've bought that doesn't fit), but not a huge surprise.

It'll be the first paid bump system I've ever seen on a B&S forum. I'm interested to see how it works out.

Hopefully, not a bad surprise, especially for small sellers with a bunch of stuff to sell. The number of threads per page would be greater, so... if you have just one item to sell, and at a low, low, price, you will probably not have to bump. If you want to command a higher asking price, well, then you'd probably have to consider the the tradeoff between price and associated costs. If you have a bunch of stuff to sell, bumping for a buck ever so often is not going to cut into your profits much. This us unless what you have sucks or is priced too high for the market, in which case, your item will rightfully be relegated to page 100.

I think that there will be a net benefit to both sellers (by allowing them to keep the best items on the first couple of pages, without having to contend with general stupidity and people gaming the rules) and to buyers, who will reap the benefit of sellers being more aware of what a reasonable selling price might be, rather than starting with a high price, and bringing it down only very gradually.
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