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Random health and exercise thoughts - Page 3725

post #55861 of 57266

Went to the PL/Strongman/BB gym for the first time yesterday. I felt so tiny...

 

So good to be able to do a workout that I actually wanted to do without any compromises. Bench has completely died though. I thought I'd be able to hit 185x5-8 after being able to do 80's for 7 with DB's, but I eeked out only 3 reps before becoming worried that I'd end up pinning myself.

It'll be good to get in a couple of sessions there a week. I think I'll be able to pop into my gym at school for a few accessory things for half an hour every here and there to round things out or to do a double session on days when I'm riding the trainer.

I'm pretty psyched tbh, especially once I finish anatomy at the end of the month, I'll have so much more unstructured time to study and do whatever I want since all our lectures are recorded and we won't have labs anymore. Gonna get jacked between march and may. I'm not really trying to gain weight anymore. I'm at a pretty stable 175. Just trying to do a bit of a recomp to get more full again. If I can use a hack squat, even light, without back issues, it should work out great.

 

This gym has a reverse hyper. Any advice using it? I really think it'd help my back but I don't want to go too ham with it.

post #55862 of 57266

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post #55863 of 57266
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeen7908 View Post

Is 4x or even 3x a week really necessary for a natty? Particularly without heroic genetics?

I haven't found any benefit going more than twice a week - just feel tired and overtrained

Ymmv because I am genetic trash

Don't follow your logic here.
Surely the naturals need to train more than the enhanced for somewhat similar results? Also, the genetically blessed will get good results despite little or sub optimal training. The not so genetically lucky person, again, will have to train smarter and/or more to make up for worse conditions. This doesn't mean he should not listen to his body when the training get too tough.

Of course you will feel worse, more tired and weaker if you increase your total workload by upping the frequency and/or volume. You are training more. Give it time and sufficient recovery measures and you will adapt. Despite my injuries, I rarely felt I couldn't handle high volume full body 5x a week. And I came from low volume upper/lower split 1.5 years prior.
post #55864 of 57266
Quote:
Originally Posted by conceptionist View Post


Don't follow your logic here.
Surely the naturals need to train more than the enhanced for somewhat similar results? Also, the genetically blessed will get good results despite little or sub optimal training. The not so genetically lucky person, again, will have to train smarter and/or more to make up for worse conditions. This doesn't mean he should not listen to his body when the training get too tough.

Of course you will feel worse, more tired and weaker if you increase your total workload by upping the frequency and/or volume. You are training more. Give it time and sufficient recovery measures and you will adapt. Despite my injuries, I rarely felt I couldn't handle high volume full body 5x a week. And I came from low volume upper/lower split 1.5 years prior.

 

I think you're mistaken re: natties needing to train more. Cycling will help you recover much much faster if you're doing it right and your work capacity will increase a bit too. When you see guys that cycle and don't make gains, it's because they didn't train more frequently/harder than when they were natty.

 

It's hard to say anything about Skeen since I have no idea how he works out, but if he's doing 2-3hr sessions on the days that he lifts and really nailing himself on the days that he lifts, then it could make sense that it'd take a full day or two to recover. I probably wouldn't set my workouts up like that, but if it works for him...

post #55865 of 57266
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraphicNovelty View Post

Another convert.

Now we just need to convert conceptionist and this thread will have fully broed out.

Actually, since I can't continue with powerlifting or even heavy weights for a while, I lift more for aesthetics atm. Not a bro split, but I am cutting and doing more hypertrophy work. Aiming for 190 lbs sub 10%, down from 210 at 15%-ish.
post #55866 of 57266
Quote:
Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post

I think you're mistaken re: natties needing to train more. Cycling will help you recover much much faster if you're doing it right and your work capacity will increase a bit too. When you see guys that cycle and don't make gains, it's because they didn't train more frequently/harder than when they were natty.

It's hard to say anything about Skeen since I have no idea how he works out, but if he's doing 2-3hr sessions on the days that he lifts and really nailing himself on the days that he lifts, then it could make sense that it'd take a full day or two to recover. I probably wouldn't set my workouts up like that, but if it works for him...

Yeah, I am aware that prepping increases work load capacity. That still does not mean that nattys can train a lot more than many people think. This may not be very popular opinion, but many non competitive fitness people and bodybuilders do not train very much, even if they are serious and passionate about lifting.

American powerlifters, even at the elite level, also does not train very much in general (apart from part of the elite in the federations where drugs are not allowed). The trend actually appears to be that the naturals train with higher frequency and volume (but of course not the same weights), maybe because they simply have to in order to get results. Enhanced lifters get results no matter what in most cases, and in some instances even despite their training. No training and steroids have been shown to give better muscle gains than training and no steroids.

From my point of view, many US PLers or have a different training methodology in comparison to countries like Russia, Norway and Japan, which are more influenced by Olympic weightlifting whereas US has a bodybuilding heritage. And weightlifters train a ton - just like athletes in any other serious sport. Not trying to boast in any way, I am just saying that there is a difference.
Edited by conceptionist - 2/10/16 at 9:38am
post #55867 of 57266
Quote:
Originally Posted by OccultaVexillum View Post
 

Sure, if he's not eating or sleeping and has the flu.

If you have an above average powerlifting total 7.5x bw+ and train at 90%+ twice weekly... you're not gonna have a good time

post #55868 of 57266
Quote:
Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post

I think you're mistaken re: natties needing to train more. Cycling will help you recover much much faster if you're doing it right and your work capacity will increase a bit too. When you see guys that cycle and don't make gains, it's because they didn't train more frequently/harder than when they were natty.

Well yes, being on cycle does decrease the time needed for recovery, allowing more frequent workouts. However, that's not the reason for the increase in strength. If you go on cycle you will definitely become stronger than before even without varying your training.
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199607043350101
post #55869 of 57266
Quote:
Originally Posted by K. Nights View Post


Well yes, being on cycle does decrease the time needed for recovery, allowing more frequent workouts. However, that's not the reason for the increase in strength. If you go on cycle you will definitely become stronger than before even without varying your training.
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199607043350101

 

Yeah, I mean T is definitely T. I'm saying that there's a big difference between the effect of T all else equal for a short cycle (~6-8 weeks) vs a high effect with good work effect. My comment was more related to high work ethic + T vs. same work ethic + T. You'll see a much larger gain in the former group while the latter group will still see much bigger training effect for a natty.

 

But yeah, my comment of not making gains on a cycle was a bit of an exaggeration. The study you posted basically says the same thing. That just T sees gains, but T+exercise does way more than just T+no exercise for a reason.

 

The test exercise group in that study was also weaker at baseline than the placebo exercise group. Still valid results obviously, but I wish they were closer.

post #55870 of 57266
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeen7908 View Post

yes as I have expressed before you may have the phenotype (perhaps self-selected due to your genotype) from activity as a child while many here were inactive children/adolescents

yes, I reckon there's probably a fair degree of epigenetic factors at play which adds on to it too.
post #55871 of 57266
Not sure how everyone except Hendrix missed the part where I said "ymmv" and "I am genetic trash"

I also work 60 hours a week, and am 35


But I think most (note "most") of you spend too much time at the gym because you could get the same effect (or marginal detriment) from twice or even once a week saving yourselves a great deal of time

Unless you have nothing better to do in which case have at it but heavily curtail intensity or many will get injured/overtrained

Its interesting to follow people's progress in the thread!


I posted some photos in the thread a long time back. Looking now I realise that was probably my peak, which I think was a reasonable one for my own physiological constraints.
At my age I am only going to deteriorate, so trying to arrest that and perhaps have different perspective from the young whippersnappers
post #55872 of 57266
Quote:
Originally Posted by MGoCrimson View Post

If you have an above average powerlifting total 7.5x bw+ and train at 90%+ twice weekly... you're not gonna have a good time

What kind of near-elite pler would train at 90% for more than a few weeks in a year though?
I'm not trying to be a contradictory asshole but if 2 days a week tires you out and makes you overtrain then your recovery is absolutely horrible (ie not eating or sleeping and sick or diseased) or you are grossly misusing the term "overtraining".

Even if your genetics suck, 2 days a week at any intensity should not be an issue. If you have any kind training history then your work capacity should definitely have improved to allow 3-4 days per week without issue.
post #55873 of 57266
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeen7908 View Post

Not sure how everyone except Hendrix missed the part where I said "ymmv" and "I am genetic trash"

I also work 60 hours a week, and am 35


But I think most (note "most") of you spend too much time at the gym because you could get the same effect (or marginal detriment) from twice or even once a week saving yourselves a great deal of time

Unless you have nothing better to do in which case have at it but heavily curtail intensity or many will get injured/overtrained

Its interesting to follow people's progress in the thread!


I posted some photos in the thread a long time back. Looking now I realise that was probably my peak, which I think was a reasonable one for my own physiological constraints.
At my age I am only going to deteriorate, so trying to arrest that and perhaps have different perspective from the young whippersnappers

 

I'm turning 27 next month and know for sure that I don't recover like I used to at say 23...

 

That said, I remember your picture and you were pretty shredded. Even if you're half of that now, you're doing pretty great for 35 working 60 hrs a week. If you dialed down intensity and upped volume/days I think you'd be fine. Have you tried that or are you too limited by your time? Are you counting cardio days in there or are you not doing those?



I'm honestly just curious.

post #55874 of 57266
Quote:
Originally Posted by OccultaVexillum View Post

What kind of near-elite pler would train at 90% for more than a few weeks in a year though?
I'm not trying to be a contradictory asshole but if 2 days a week tires you out and makes you overtrain then your recovery is absolutely horrible (ie not eating or sleeping and sick or diseased) or you are grossly misusing the term "overtraining".

Even if your genetics suck, 2 days a week at any intensity should not be an issue. If you have any kind training history then your work capacity should definitely have improved to allow 3-4 days per week without issue.

Ellibridge has the untested WR squat (or have had, right?) and he squats heavy once every two weeks or something like that. He does vey little volume in the squat otherwise. Compare that with Layne Norton who has the WR tested squat in IPF, and who I think used a high frequency, high volume Sheiko program. Now, they are in different weight classes pushing different weights, but no natty can get to that level squatting a heavy double every two weeks.

If you look at videos from social media on some untested american PLers it seems like they go heavy often. I think thats different from other PL programs where you intentionally train yourself weak only to supercompensate for the meet.
post #55875 of 57266
Quote:
Originally Posted by OccultaVexillum View Post


What kind of near-elite pler would train at 90% for more than a few weeks in a year though?
I'm not trying to be a contradictory asshole but if 2 days a week tires you out and makes you overtrain then your recovery is absolutely horrible (ie not eating or sleeping and sick or diseased) or you are grossly misusing the term "overtraining".

Even if your genetics suck, 2 days a week at any intensity should not be an issue. If you have any kind training history then your work capacity should definitely have improved to allow 3-4 days per week without issue.

I think we're talking about two different things. CNS over-training / fatigue vs ... whatever the other thing y'all are talking about is

 

Two days a week squatting / pulling 90%+ singles and doubles will absolutely wreck you. 7.5x bw isn't near elite tho, or have they shifted all classifications down?

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