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Random health and exercise thoughts - Page 3710

post #55636 of 57262
Quote:
Originally Posted by I<3Bacon View Post

Regular hyper != Reverse hyper

Total game changer for lower back issues... my chiro/ART guy said he's lost a few patients to the reverse hyper

That is weird.... I thought the reverse hyper would be a back nuker. Such an unnatural way to load the lumbar spine
post #55637 of 57262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool The Kid View Post


That is weird.... I thought the reverse hyper would be a back nuker. Such an unnatural way to load the lumbar spine

 

...it doesn't load/compress the spine

post #55638 of 57262
Quote:
Originally Posted by MGoCrimson View Post

...it doesn't load/compress the spine
Not axially, but there is definitely some shear loading which can be as bad or worse.
post #55639 of 57262
It's basically the only movement that puts the lumbar in extension while causing traction instead of compression. I do a couple light or unloaded sets before and after every squat and deadlift session. Feels amazing.

But there are a couple guys at my gym who have lumbar issues and the rev hyper isn't helping them.
post #55640 of 57262
Quote:
Originally Posted by I<3Bacon View Post

It's basically the only movement that puts the lumbar in extension while causing traction instead of compression. I do a couple light or unloaded sets before and after every squat and deadlift session. Feels amazing.

But there are a couple guys at my gym who have lumbar issues and the rev hyper isn't helping them.

Could you (or anyone else) possibly explain/clarify this for me? I do a lot of exercises and fitness, but really do not have much of the technical knowledge of some the information here. I have some lumbar issues and am curious how to do this extension/traction you are referring to.
post #55641 of 57262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Nickels View Post

Could you (or anyone else) possibly explain/clarify this for me? I do a lot of exercises and fitness, but really do not have much of the technical knowledge of some the information here. I have some lumbar issues and am curious how to do this extension/traction you are referring to.

Honestly, it will be very difficult to perform without the actual reverse hyperextension machine. There is sort of a bodyweight version of it performed with a bench and a stability ball, but you can't really load that nor can I speak to how that is performed.

Not to be confused with a 45deg hyperextension: http://www.roguefitness.com/rogue-reverse-hyper-2
post #55642 of 57262
Interesting and informative. Thank you. Unfortunately, no I do not have one of those!
post #55643 of 57262
Quote:
Originally Posted by I<3Bacon View Post

It's basically the only movement that puts the lumbar in extension while causing traction instead of compression. I do a couple light or unloaded sets before and after every squat and deadlift session. Feels amazing.

But there are a couple guys at my gym who have lumbar issues and the rev hyper isn't helping them.

Thanks for the info.
I will swap the hyperextension for reversed hyper to see if it helps.

Do you have any idea of what problems those guys that doesn't benefit from it have with their backs? I mean, there's a difference between a sore low back and actual disc damage.

Also, while the reverse hyper does have a rehabbing effect, wouldn't heavy lifts still cause damage to the spine since its now permanently weakened? I'm referring to what Skeen wrote.
Edited by conceptionist - 1/18/16 at 3:19am
post #55644 of 57262
Hope you come back stronger than ever @conceptionist
post #55645 of 57262
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeen7908 View Post

The disc can go back in but the annulus fibrosis is weakened forever
Big risk the disc goes out again

And regardless it will get more degenerate every time you load it, the mechanics are altered.

Risk:reward is way too high to keep going
 
Yes it is, but that doesn't mean you have to stop doing everything entirely. Reherniations can happen, but you only have so much disc tissue inside. Once it's removed (surgically or once the herni is reabsorbed by the body), you have to squeeze harder to get the jelly out even if things are weakened. Thinking about it like a hernia only kinda sorta makes sense.

Long story short, I'd probably caution against pushing the envelope too far in either direction. Pushing new PR's is probably not going to come without a high risk. At the same time, there's no need to stop entirely. Not suggesting that you said the latter. Some people just freak.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Nickels View Post


Could you (or anyone else) possibly explain/clarify this for me? I do a lot of exercises and fitness, but really do not have much of the technical knowledge of some the information here. I have some lumbar issues and am curious how to do this extension/traction you are referring to.

 

Lumbar issues/pathology can be LOTS of different things. The reverse hyper could probably help soft tissue related things, but lets say someone has spondylolisthesis where the spine is actually out of alignment, then something like this could possibly make things worse. It's hard to know what to suggest to people if they don't know the pathology.


The listhesis is way more common in older patients though, but I'm just saying that there's NOT a one size fits all thing her because the pathology is extremely variable even if the nonspecific symptoms are similar.

post #55646 of 57262
Quote:
Originally Posted by conceptionist View Post

Do you have any idea of what problems those guys that doesn't benefit from it have with their backs? I mean, there's a difference between a sore low back and actual disc damage.

Also, while the reverse hyper does have a rehabbing effect, wouldn't heavy lifts still cause damage to the spine since its now permanently weakened? I'm referring to what Skeen wrote.

I'm not entirely certain but one of the guys also has chronic SI joint problems and the rev hyper seems to exacerbate it.

While I don't disagree with Skeen, what I did take away from Dr. Stuart McGill's (widely accepted as the authority on lower back problems in sports/athletics) book is injury and rehab can go a variety of different ways for different people. I also heard offhand that he isn't much of a fan of the rev hyper machine fwiw.

Anyway, Dan told me he used to do a couple sets of 15 with no weight before every squat and dl session when he hurt his back just so he could keep training. My chiro/ART guy recommended a couple sets of 10 with no weight or something light like 10kg before AND after every squat and deadlift session and my back has been feeling great (as someone who has a history of lumbar disc issues). Honestly, if lower back and disc preservation was my #1 priority, I'd probably stop squatting and deadlifting entirely. But I'm not going to and there's a good chance I won't have lower back problems later on in life.
post #55647 of 57262
Quote:
Originally Posted by I<3Bacon View Post

 Honestly, if lower back and disc preservation was my #1 priority, I'd probably stop squatting and deadlifting entirely. But I'm not going to and there's a good chance I won't have lower back problems later on in life.

 

Curious why you think this.

post #55648 of 57262
Quote:
Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post

Curious why you think this.

My severe disc herniation was way before I ever stepped foot in a gym or had any awareness of body positioning or posture. Went a full 10yrs without a single back problem again... then had a couple minor lower back injuries in the gym... both from being an idiot while deadlifting. Never had back pain from squatting. But who knows... maybe I'll be fucked by the time I'm 70.
post #55649 of 57262
Quote:
Originally Posted by I<3Bacon View Post


My severe disc herniation was way before I ever stepped foot in a gym or had any awareness of body positioning or posture. Went a full 10yrs without a single back problem again... then had a couple minor lower back injuries in the gym... both from being an idiot while deadlifting. Never had back pain from squatting. But who knows... maybe I'll be fucked by the time I'm 70.

 

 

Yeah, I herniated a disc right when I first started lifting but it was after years of cycling and back pain from other things. My parents both have issues as well.

I'm fine as long as I stay away from deads and squats. Have to do other things for my legs, but honestly lifting and doing a lot of core works does more to keep me injury free. I also don't run anymore.

My original injury was rehabbed. Like... I used to have foot drop and tripped all the time and that got better with a good physio. It got reaggravated when I slipped while squatting once and that never got better which led to my having to have surgery.

No one quite understands this stuff sadly, but I do think that a lot of 'work' capacity is built in your teenage years and early 20's. This might be why crossfitters have so many injuries as well, since it's mostly people that were pretty sedentary before they jumped into the deep end.

post #55650 of 57262
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotCrispy View Post

What are you guys' experiences with how clothes fit after a couple cut/bulks?  Let's say you end up around the same weight, but go from 20% to 10%bf.  Same size?  

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
My coach has been emphasizing the fuck out of extra back accessory work, and as a result I'm creeping into  L/XL in some outerwear because of armhole/pit mobility issues which is super weird to me, trying to pick the right size for a few months from now

I have given up trying to get clothes that fit me. I'm also a bizarre shape.
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