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post #53506 of 57266
The scandinavian countries have their problems as well. Sweden has huge problems with the education pre college. The PISA results have dropped to the absolute worst of all OECD countries.

Math skills of Swedish students are pretty catastrophic and this has resulted in that subject like business, econ, statistics have been simplified at uni. Post grads accepted in harder degrees often come from outside Sweden since the swedish students skills are not up to par.

In universities its a bit better but higher education here has become extremely inflated. You don't pay for your degree so people end up majoring in subjects they don't care much about nor work hard. There's way more humanities students than is in demand. The only degrees that you for sure can say will pay off and will be easy to get a job with at graduation is engineering.

We have similar systems to UK and AUS as in we chose our direction in high school. The problem with this is that only the science specialisation opens up for all majors at uni. Loads of people do social studies in high school and end up having to do one year of tech/science preparation school after high school in order to fill the prerequisites for STEM degrees at uni. For instance, I just did my masters in marketing but want to study math and stats. I need to go back and do high school math to be able to enroll.

The unis get payed per student that graduates iirc, so they have no incentive to match the supply of certain majors to the demand. For an international career, there's basically five unis worth going to in business to have a chance, and a couple more for science and tech degrees.
post #53507 of 57266
The problem is not the universitty system

The problem is that first globalization and outsourcing, and subsequently automation, algorithms and robotics have rendered a lot of human labour redundant. That started out with physical labour, but is rapidly progressing to involve intellectual endeavours. Social and creative jobs (sales, marketing, internet startups etc) will be next.

There will simply be fewer jobs available, because there will be less need for human work

This is the death of labour, and the final ascent of capital, before, as Marx predicted, it will finally eat itself as there will be noone with income to buy the products that the owners of the robots and AI make.


Feel bad for all the younger bros: things are getting worse
post #53508 of 57266
Quote:
Originally Posted by conceptionist View Post

The scandinavian countries have their problems as well. Sweden has huge problems with the education pre college. The PISA results have dropped to the absolute worst of all OECD countries.

Math skills of Swedish students are pretty catastrophic and this has resulted in that subject like business, econ, statistics have been simplified at uni. Post grads accepted in harder degrees often come from outside Sweden since the swedish students skills are not up to par.


This was on the news in Denmark last week, as a lot of uni's let students pass, even thought they shouldn't because they get paid per graduated student.

My theory about the shitty performances in the Scandinavian school, is two fold one is below par teachers and the other one is that there's no prestige in scandinavian society for doing well in school, there's more prestige in doing well socially. With our wellfare systems you don't really need to do well you can just calm benefits or get a government job.

The whole high school system is flawed as well, they focus on passed needs and not future needs. The students are required to learn French and German, instead of Chinese, Indian or Portuguese, which is what's needed, also stuff like 101 business law is a year 3 of 3 subject on business focused high schools. baldy[1].gif

The best part is that VAT is not in the curriculum AT ALL in Business Economics.
post #53509 of 57266
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeen7908 View Post

The problem is not the universitty system

The problem is that first globalization and outsourcing, and subsequently automation, algorithms and robotics have rendered a lot of human labour redundant. That started out with physical labour, but is rapidly progressing to involve intellectual endeavours. Social and creative jobs (sales, marketing, internet startups etc) will be next.

There will simply be fewer jobs available, because there will be less need for human work

This is the death of labour, and the final ascent of capital, before, as Marx predicted, it will finally eat itself as there will be noone with income to buy the products that the owners of the robots and AI make.


Feel bad for all the younger bros: things are getting worse

It sound pretty crazy at first, but when you look up the research and current trends its def heading in that direction.

While computers have traditionally been better at tasks that does not include any creative or critical thinking or decision making, they are now even beating humans in those areas. For intance the best chess player atm is a computer.

 

I don't think it's "the end" though. Jobs will adapt as they have done before. There will be further demand for computer and tech skills (math, engineering, programming) and much less for administrative jobs (accounting, sales clerks, cleaning personell, etc). Its also believed that the middle class will shrink, since those highly educated will be in demand and the amount of typical middle-low class jobs will decline. If so it will put huge stress on welfare systems.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Find Finn View Post

My theory about the shitty performances in the Scandinavian school, is two fold one is below par teachers and the other one is that there's no prestige in scandinavian society for doing well in school, there's more prestige in doing well socially. With our wellfare systems you don't really need to do well you can just calm benefits or get a government job.

The whole high school system is flawed as well, they focus on passed needs and not future needs. The students are required to learn French and German, instead of Chinese, Indian or Portuguese, which is what's needed, also stuff like 101 business law is a year 3 of 3 subject on business focused high schools. baldy[1].gif

The best part is that VAT is not in the curriculum AT ALL in Business Economics.

 

Agree.

The problem for Sweden specifically is that there is absolute no prestige in pre college teaching. Horrible working conditions at most places and too little authority as a teacher.

 

I've spoken to some of the professors at my business school about students perceptions that they don't really learn new skills that is in demand in the job market, and their response is usually that they don't prepare you for jobs but instead focus on learning critical thinking skills (which I think is a valid reason). The problem for business students here is that some companies prefer to take engineering students instead since they have larger concrete skill sets (programming, software usage, better problem solving skills because of studying more math, etc).

post #53510 of 57266
@jacquelep things are nowhere near as bad as you claim WRT US college finances. For example median undergrad debt balances are only a little over $10K. $30K is "MSRP" but plenty of schools have huge endowments and there is a lot of financial aid out there. U dont need a masters to make a living, me n wifey dont and we make great money. U dont need to live in a big expensive city to get a decent job and make good money either... again me n wifey are making more (in wifey's case DOUBLE) in lil ol Charlotte NC than we were up in big money NYC. Sounds to me like u have silo'd yourself in some big money city university. Here....read this.

I just had a quasi interview with a dude in another department who runs an analytics group. He majored in psychology (!!!) but was a DBA before he graduated high school (!!!!!!!!!!!). College is cool but there seems to be a shift back to skills over pedigree in the real world (he even said as much for his group explicitly). If u can combine the two u will be golden but if u have to pick one def go with skills.

I think the skills aspect is where Western education is failing. Theres no reason kids should be graduating HS w/no grasp of programming logic or statistics or w/e. I get that humanities make u well rounded yadda yadda but shit is too real right now to not be equipping kids to be employable. I hope when I have kids I can give em the base of skills I know school won't. I mean I got a mech eng degree and pretty much everything I do at work I learned after I graduated. There is a big disconnect between the academic world and the real world
post #53511 of 57266
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeen7908 View Post

The problem is not the universitty system

The problem is that first globalization and outsourcing, and subsequently automation, algorithms and robotics have rendered a lot of human labour redundant. That started out with physical labour, but is rapidly progressing to involve intellectual endeavours. Social and creative jobs (sales, marketing, internet startups etc) will be next.

There will simply be fewer jobs available, because there will be less need for human work

This is the death of labour, and the final ascent of capital, before, as Marx predicted, it will finally eat itself as there will be noone with income to buy the products that the owners of the robots and AI make.


Feel bad for all the younger bros: things are getting worse

Humans needed for manufacturing have a very very long way to go before they become obsolete. The overhead involved in automated plants are so sky high that only the largest of companies could even afford considering it. The majority of small businesses will never convert to automization.
post #53512 of 57266
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeen7908 View Post

The problem is not the universitty system

The problem is that first globalization and outsourcing, and subsequently automation, algorithms and robotics have rendered a lot of human labour redundant. That started out with physical labour, but is rapidly progressing to involve intellectual endeavours. Social and creative jobs (sales, marketing, internet startups etc) will be next.

There will simply be fewer jobs available, because there will be less need for human work

This is the death of labour, and the final ascent of capital, before, as Marx predicted, it will finally eat itself as there will be noone with income to buy the products that the owners of the robots and AI make.


Feel bad for all the younger bros: things are getting worse

People just gotta stop making so many cottdamn baybeez. Everyone was so upset about dat negative growth rate in Italy except for me. You dont need more jobless bodies.

And as far as art goes. Thats the sort of shit that gives life that shimmery warm happy quality that makes you feel good once your basic needs are secure. Unless you are fuji. Then all you need is cash money, hos and dat T+gym hnnnnnnng foo.gificon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif
post #53513 of 57266
I studied all of this pretty extensively in school. A few things;

Outsourcing and automization increase productivity which increases global wealth. This is a good thing. The question is just how it's distributed. This is a similar issue as finance, whichincreases market liquidity and capital availability, and allows companies to mitigate risk (this is the idea behind securitization) but the distribution of those returns to capital shift to the upper part of the spectrum. Capital accumulates more capital and squeezes those on the bottom. Marx was generally right, and the period of midcentury social mobility was somewhat of a fluke.

HOWEVER the shift to the knowledge/service economy isn't necessarily bad. Instead of making shit we just do shit for each other, which still is valuable. Arts and Media are huge part of the american economy, so there will still be a need for people with art degrees and skills in that field. Healthcare is the fastest growing segment of the U.S. economy. Law and finance are actually service professions as well. Ideally, a service-based economy is actually pretty sweet: everyone has great entertainment, eats great food, is in great shape, is healthy all the time and we do it all without fucking up the environment. The key is making these service professions (especially those towards at the bottom) be something you can do without living in poverty, either by raising their wages directly or by supporting them with generous social programs.

Another big issue with the shift to the service economy is urban areas that used to be manufacturing or shipping hubs but now have no jobs to support the population (they're also built around cars as a main transportation vehicle, which makes the development of public transit in these places very difficult).

As for the university: The idea of the university in the U.S. was created when only rich white males could go to college, and became a method for upward mobility after the GI bill opened them up to people (mostly white males) of less privileged backgrounds. However, they was never intended to be the main vehicle for social mobility and you're starting to see the strain on that system. Many private universities are bloated as fuck and part of that is the idea that you can go to your "dream school" whether or not you can afford it, as consumers of higher education are incredibly price-insensitive, partly due to the fact that 18 year olds are fucking idiots but also because of the easily availability of credit (you can't default on a college loan)

However, you can get a bachelors degree in the U.S. If you're savvy and hit up community college for 2 years and transfer to a state school--you'll still have a diploma from that state school, which has a very small earnings differential vs. one from a private school. Most parents and students are not this savvy, but as college becomes less and less affordable for the majority of bright students from less-advantaged backgrounds, you'll see state schools picking up the slack (I go to grad school at a CUNY, where the undergrads are playing the game right, even though the school is kind of a shithole).

All that being said, a four year degree still increases your lifetime earnings to be worth it. Most, but not all graduate degrees do as well. It's also important to point out that certain industries are more about networking and which ones are about hard skills. Industries that reward networking are harder to break into by students of lower socioeconomic backgrounds because they need to go to an elite college to meet the right people.

Educational attainment earlier in the U.S. is less about teaching methodology and more about student background. Our population-level educational problems stem not from our school system, but from the fact that a lot of people are just poor and poor kids don't do well in school (for a lot of reasons that aren't their fault, obviously). A big reason is that discrimatory housing policies have portioned poor people into poor neighborhoods. Poor people from neighborhoods with a more diverse socioeconomic mix fare much much better than poor people who live with only other poor people. Housing is a huge issue in the U.S., and I think the next big fight about inequality is going to happen there (healthcare being the major fight that just happened). However, because people's houses are usually their biggest investment, they fight pretty hard to do anything that would lower the value of their homes (NIMBY-ism). It'll be interesting how the contours of the debate shape up.
Edited by GraphicNovelty - 5/8/15 at 7:15am
post #53514 of 57266

What is going on in this thread?

post #53515 of 57266
Definitely not weight lifting.
post #53516 of 57266
Oh btw coldsnap you were asking for cheaper versions of that weird japanese western aesthetic? Ralph lauren denim supply actually makes stuff that can be styled in the way you want.
post #53517 of 57266
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraphicNovelty View Post

Oh btw coldsnap you were asking for cheaper versions of that weird japanese western aesthetic? Ralph lauren denim supply actually makes stuff that can be styled in the way you want.

Oh yea, I forgot about them. I'll need to check that out. I remember being in Macys awhile back getting a pair of Levis and wandered into the Denim Supply section. Some of the stuff was horrible but they had 3 or 4 pieces which reminded me of RRL. I like RRL but the stuff is cut way too slim.
post #53518 of 57266

I tried front squatting for the first time yesterday and was having trouble with 95lbs cuz the bar hurt so fking much against my collarbones, is this an elbow flexibility issue or something else? Cuz even if I raise my elbows more the bar is still sitting against my collarbone if it's touching my neck.

post #53519 of 57266
It's never going to be comfortable, but the bar shouldn't be on your collarbone. It should be against your neck, resting just behind your front delts. Ideally you will have some trap meat and a chest shelf to rest it on a bit. It will always be basically choking you a little bit. It's just one of those things that will take some time to figure out and get comfortable with but its always going to have a level of disconfort in the bar placement.
A lot of people have tutorials on it but the best is probably Dan Green that comes to mind. Just YouTube "Dan green front squat" and you'll find his tutorial.
But yeah, not many people make it past the first session without thinking it sucks. I started with 95 too and it hurt when I was doing 135, now I have no problems over 300. You figure it out and get used to it.
post #53520 of 57266
Quote:
Originally Posted by accordion View Post

I tried front squatting for the first time yesterday and was having trouble with 95lbs cuz the bar hurt so fking much against my collarbones, is this an elbow flexibility issue or something else? Cuz even if I raise my elbows more the bar is still sitting against my collarbone if it's touching my neck.

I just use wraps, tie them around bar, and hold onto them instead of bar. I don't really want the wrist flexibility needed to properly do front squat.
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