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Random health and exercise thoughts - Page 3539

post #53071 of 57260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool The Kid View Post

***T-NATION ALERT***

"Is Powerlifting Hurting Bodybuilding?"

https://www.t-nation.com/training/is-powerlifting-hurting-bodybuilding

Thoughts?

I think powerlifting is awesome, but it's def not for everybody, and beginner programs (I hate 5x5, should be 5x8-10) and Rippletits shame push too many people in that direction IMO who might not have gone that way had they been able to choose w/o bias. Layne Norton's latest vlog discusses this.

 

I think of powerlifting as a sport so the article does not really make any sense to me. It does make some sense if I change "powerlifting" to "strength training", but I still think the overall argument is flawed.

 

Honestly I don't think the divide between "hypertrophy training" and "strength training" is as big as many people make it out to be, at least not for natural lifters. You can get big just focusing on your strength, doing low reps and training the powerlifts more than whatever movements bodybuilders tend to do more. That's the way I've grown most anyway.

 

The guy who wrote the article does not seem to know how powerlifters train. I've read so many posts from bodybuilders who seem to have the same view of powerlifting training; that it only consists of squats, bench pressing and deadlifts, with low volume and no curls or accessory work. I just wonder if these people know any powerlifters and have looked at how they train? The Sheiko programs for instance has very high volume and lots of accessories and high rep work.

 

I'd also say that the general powerlifter has a better understanding of sound programming and progression than the general bodybuilder/guy who just wants to get big, and will thus most often make better and faster progress. But that is only based on my observations from watching the progression of new lifters at both commercial gyms and a powerlifting gym.

 

The takeways in the article are decent information but its absolutely nothing new. Its common sense for anyone who has been training for a while.

post #53072 of 57260
Quote:
Originally Posted by conceptionist View Post

I think of powerlifting as a sport so the article does not really make any sense to me. It does make some sense if I change "powerlifting" to "strength training", but I still think the overall argument is flawed.


Honestly I don't think the divide between "hypertrophy training" and "strength training" is as big as many people make it out to be, at least not for natural lifters. You can get big just focusing on your strength, doing low reps and training the powerlifts more than whatever movements bodybuilders tend to do more. That's the way I've grown most anyway.

The guy who wrote the article does not seem to know how powerlifters train. I've read so many posts from bodybuilders who seem to have the same view of powerlifting training; that it only consists of squats, bench pressing and deadlifts, with low volume and no curls or accessory work. I just wonder if these people know any powerlifters and have looked at how they train? The Sheiko programs for instance has very high volume and lots of accessories and high rep work.

I'd also say that the general powerlifter has a better understanding of sound programming and progression than the general bodybuilder/guy who just wants to get big, and will thus most often make better and faster progress. But that is only based on my observations from watching the progression of new lifters at both commercial gyms and a powerlifting gym.

The takeways in the article are decent information but its absolutely nothing new. Its common sense for anyone who has been training for a while.

Are you serious? You really think you can get big naturally in the low rep range? Good luck with that.
post #53073 of 57260
Quote:
Originally Posted by tesseract View Post


Are you serious? You really think you can get big naturally in the low rep range? Good luck with that.

 

Considering that I've grown most on this style of training (it is still high volume, just lots of sets of 2-5 reps) and from my observation training at both style of gyms, yes.

I know that it is easier to reach a higher volume with higher reps, and that volume is the key driver to growth, but you can still reach high volumes with lower reps. You just have to substitute the lower reps with heavier weights, higher frequency and/or more sets to reach the same given total volume over a time period.

 

But sure, if my end goal was to get as big as possible, I'd probably train a little bit different. That doesn't mean powerlifting training can't get you big.

post #53074 of 57260

On that powerlifting (and weightlifting) vs Bodybuilding topic:

 

Klokov going into bodybuilding.

https://instagram.com/p/13rkzkjHE9/

post #53075 of 57260
powerlifting is a lot of hips strength, bodybuilding dont care about hips.
post #53076 of 57260
Quote:
Originally Posted by conceptionist View Post

Considering that I've grown most on this style of training (it is still high volume, just lots of sets of 2-5 reps) and from my observation training at both style of gyms, yes.
I know that it is easier to reach a higher volume with higher reps, and that volume is the key driver to growth, but you can still reach high volumes with lower reps. You just have to substitute the lower reps with heavier weights, higher frequency and/or more sets to reach the same given total volume over a time period.

But sure, if my end goal was to get as big as possible, I'd probably train a little bit different. That doesn't mean powerlifting training can't get you big.
I feel like a dick and I am not trying to come off as one but you aren't big at all. I was wholeheartedly expecting to vote for you in this aesthetics contest until I saw you had zero chest development. Your quads got huge but what percentage of new lifters are like fuck yeah I want huge legs and no upper body at all? I keep seeing people make the same mistake, bulking like a powerlifter then cutting like a bodybuilder and it's a two steps forward one step back approach that yields shit results especially when you are natty.
post #53077 of 57260
I wonder if I should use the rest of this bronkaid on the cut. I felt like it worked last time. After-all I did go from like 200lbs with a 308lb squat to 168lbs with a 350 squat, I just forgot how often to take it and dosage and such.
post #53078 of 57260
Quote:
Originally Posted by tesseract View Post


I feel like a dick and I am not trying to come off as one but you aren't big at all. I was wholeheartedly expecting to vote for you in this aesthetics contest until I saw you had zero chest development. Your quads got huge but what percentage of new lifters are like fuck yeah I want huge legs and no upper body at all? I keep seeing people make the same mistake, bulking like a powerlifter then cutting like a bodybuilder and it's a two steps forward one step back approach that yields shit results especially when you are natty.

 

I haven't said that I am big, so I don't know why you bring that up. I said that I've grown. 

I'm not sure why you bring up my chest development either. I don't train to get a big chest. I train to to get a higher squat, bench, and deadlift. How I look is secondary.

 

It is not a mistake or failure since it is not my goal.

post #53079 of 57260
lil bit from Mike Israetel book -
Quote:
"Problems with 'Powerbuilding'"
4.) Strength and Size
While muscle size directly causes strength expression by supplying the literal machinery for muscle contraction, there are several ways in which size training can (minimally but meaningfully) interfere with powerlifting performance:
- Size training is best accomplished in the high volume range. This creates a significant cumulative fatigue which converts fiber types, interferes with nervous system function, and literally makes the lifter too tired to present the most overload and perform the best in training. Size training is great for powerlifting success, but only in a delayed manner when volumes drop, strength training commences, and the newly built muscle can be trained for strength in a low-fatigue environment.
- Training non-specific muscles can be a very interfering practice to powerlifting ability. Some bicep, medial delt, and calf training is a great contributor to powerlifting success, but excessive training of these muscle groups can add fatigue that's not worth the performance tradeoff. Huge medial delts are sure nice to look at and are very important to bodybuilders, but they contribute very little to powerlifting success, and almost nothing at all past a certain minimal strength. Training them too much does not help powerlifting ability, but causes fatigue and takes up the time that could have been used to train more or recover more from previous productive training.
Of course it's possible to be a powerlifter and be incredibly muscular all-around, not just in the muscles that matter. And there is something to be said for a minimal amount of balance between the major muscle groups to prevent injury. But doing hypertrophy training even during strength and peaking phases, and especially paying undue attention to muscles not very contributive to powerlifting can be somewhat (though in the grand scheme not terribly) harmful to best results.
*Editing the PL book, so expect a lot more of these in the next several weeks.
**Chapter: Specificity
post #53080 of 57260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldsnap View Post

I wonder if I should use the rest of this bronkaid on the cut. I felt like it worked last time. After-all I did go from like 200lbs with a 308lb squat to 168lbs with a 350 squat, I just forgot how often to take it and dosage and such.

Buy some sibutramine it is the ultimate cutting drug, was prescribed up until like a decade ago for obesity. It's an amphetamine that doesn't make you feel high whilst still really suppressing your appetite.

I wouldn't say powerlifting is worse for making you grow, it just makes you grow in areas people aren't that interested in growing. I want big delts, arms and pecs. I don't really care about how thick my hip flexors or spinal erectors are.
post #53081 of 57260
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuji View Post

Buy some sibutramine it is the ultimate cutting drug, was prescribed up until like a decade ago for obesity. It's an amphetamine that doesn't make you feel high whilst still really suppressing your appetite.

I wouldn't say powerlifting is worse for making you grow, it just makes you grow in areas people aren't that interested in growing. I want big delts, arms and pecs. I don't really care about how thick my hip flexors or spinal erectors are.

I'll do some research on that, thanks.

Ya fuck hip flexors. Mine are giant and no one cares, they are also a pain in the ass because they get super tight. I've been spending the past 20 minutes jamming a lacross ball into them so they can relax.
post #53082 of 57260
Quote:
Originally Posted by conceptionist View Post

I haven't said that I am big, so I don't know why you bring that up. I said that I've grown. 
I'm not sure why you bring up my chest development either. I don't train to get a big chest. I train to to get a higher squat, bench, and deadlift. How I look is secondary.

It is not a mistake or failure since it is not my goal.

The point of that article was that a bunch of novice lifters are being told to train high weight low rep, big 3 if they want to be big and strong and that's not really the case. You used yourself as an example of someone who grew sufficiently to argue against the article to the point where you questioned his credentials. Train for whatever you want but don't get it mistaken that bodybuilders look like bodybuilders because they are training in different rep ranges and with much higher volume than plers
post #53083 of 57260
tesseract when should I start doing like 15-30 rep stuff? I mostly stay in the 8,10,12 range throughout my workouts.
post #53084 of 57260
Quote:
Originally Posted by tesseract View Post


The point of that article was that a bunch of novice lifters are being told to train high weight low rep, big 3 if they want to be big and strong and that's not really the case. You used yourself as an example of someone who grew sufficiently to argue against the article to the point where you questioned his credentials. Train for whatever you want but don't get it mistaken that bodybuilders look like bodybuilders because they are training in different rep ranges and with much higher volume than plers

 

I agree with that the SS approach has some problems but its (and similar programs) main idea is good for novices. Its easy to follow and focus on the principles with the most impact per time invested, that is compound movements and progression. I do however think its too barebones and the progression is too fast. 

 

I questioned the writer's understanding of what powerlifting training is. In most cases, bodybuilders use powerlifting principles and vice versa so the divide is not as clear cut in my opinion as the writer makes it out to be. That said, "full" bodybuilding training will probably make you gain more size while training geared more towards powerlifting will make you stronger. Just align the training with your goals. 

post #53085 of 57260
I think this talks about PRI in a pretty accessible way. If anyone interested, it's a lot of what chris duffin talks about

http://www.menshealth.com/health/the-power-of-breathing?fullpage=true
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