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Random health and exercise thoughts - Page 3335

post #50011 of 57262
Yea only PWO I do is BCAA/HBCDs. Caffeine worked well too and I had it either pre mixed with my BCAAs or just straight as No Doz pills. Shit had me beast mode but it fucked with my sleep so I stopped taking them.
post #50012 of 57262
Ugh. It's tempting to Fuck with that stuff because I've used it once and felt like a madman on it. I could probably make any of that stuff last like 3x the number of doses.

I might try some. I hope it wears off in like 4 hours lol.
post #50013 of 57262
A friend decided it was a good idea for me to try some during a poker/beer night.

I was still up at 7am strumming away on a guitar and drinking everyone else's leftover beer while they slept. I didn't feel any high or anything other than the booze, just couldn't sleep.
post #50014 of 57262
Quote:
Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post
 

Isn't bronkaid impossible to find? I think getting like even a half or a quarter scoop of pre-workout would help me a bit. I could do caffeine pills too, but 200 mg is quite a bit and I'm sure that would have the same effect on sleep.


I'd probably be taking whatever about 30-60 mins before a workout and hope to sleep 4-5 hrs after.

 

cut the pill in half if 200mg is too much

post #50015 of 57262
Thread Starter 
Not a fan of PWO. If you need PWO to work out every day, your programming is too much for you.
post #50016 of 57262
Thread Starter 
Sorry I couldn't resist:

10924761_10101471293158708_3583812048151013822_n.jpg?oh=0cce9916dd376f79501c419d85fbbfbe&oe=555FCD08
post #50017 of 57262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldsnap View Post

just a waste of money. Coffee and bronkaid is cheap as fuck and better than any pre workout I've seen.

I use jack3d. It's like 27 dollars and lasts me at least two months.
post #50018 of 57262
If I feel like shit I have a berocca with my pre workout meal, if I train in the morning I'm having coffee anyway. Pre workouts have never done anything for me
post #50019 of 57262
I might try one and use half the serving size.

It's not the programming that's off, but the fact that sometimes I'm up at 6am and don't get into the gym till 7pm. Coffee helps, but a kick in the nads like that would be welcome sometimes. Probably not something I'd use every day though. Grocery store here sells the body fortress stuff for pretty cheap. Way cheaper than whatever true nutrition had anyway. Might grab it today. If i hate using it then it's not that big of a loss. Synthetics etc scare me a bit though, so I'll likely just suck it up.

I'm getting carboload from TN since the branched dextrose is too expensive. Hopefully that'll be what I need preworkout to get things going. Still relatively tempted given how much it sucks to workout when you feel that tired after a long day. I've been trying to get to the gym over lunch if we don't have patients. Then I just stay later to finish up tasks. That works pretty well.
Edited by ridethecliche - 1/19/15 at 7:01am
post #50020 of 57262
Quote:
Originally Posted by conceptionist View Post
 

 

Well, from what I've read muscle building is not dependent on calories, but protein. So, you might build the maximum amount of muscle (not general weight) at maintenance calories. That it might be harder to perform in the gym to achieve the desired stress and weight progression on maintenance than on a caloric surplus is another topic, although related.

 

My personal theory for why people think they gain so much more muscle mass while bulking than on maintenance is because they mistake the fat gains for muscle gains. Pure muscle gains come very slow, so while bulking the added fat gains can trick you into thinking you've gained a whole lot of muscle, while half of it might be fat.

 

Eh, I'm pretty sure your theory on building muscle is wrong, otherwise the whole concept of bulking would be foolish. If you eat below maintenance your calories won't go to building muscle but just maintaining muscle and keeping your body functioning. Also the reason for no need to increase/decrease amount of protein when bulking/cutting as you only benefit from proteins up to a certain point. 

 

On the topic of PWO: 200 mg of caffeine isn't that much, I used to do it after long days where I worked out afterwards. Would stay away from jack3d.

post #50021 of 57262

Ugh turns out the ninja ultima doesn't have compatible cups larger than 16 oz... great. i was going to buy a 24oz one but it turns out it's not compatible. I don't get it. Why make all these cups etc and not make them compatible. It's so stupid. I'm not going to buy a smaller weaker unit to use the cups, though it looks like I could have done that all along since the nutri-ninja can use the 24 oz ones and it's the weaker model.

Lol. I hate when companies make products that are so similar but they purposely make them incompatible.  

post #50022 of 57262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Landscape View Post
 

Eh, I'm pretty sure your theory on building muscle is wrong, otherwise the whole concept of bulking would be foolish. If you eat below maintenance your calories won't go to building muscle but just maintaining muscle and keeping your body functioning. Also the reason for no need to increase/decrease amount of protein when bulking/cutting as you only benefit from proteins up to a certain point. 

 

 

Please provide me with studies that say that carbs and fat elevate muscle protein synthesis or lessen muscle protein breakdown. 

 

It is easier to build muscle on a caloric surplus since the extra energy makes it easier to train hard and get progression in the gym. That said, the extra calories themselves from fat and carbs do not build more muscle given that the protein intake is met. 

 

Quote:
Background: 

The anabolic response of skeletal muscle to essential amino acids (EAAs) is dose dependent, maximal at modest doses, and short lived, even with continued EAA availability, a phenomenon termed “muscle-full.” However, the effect of EAA ingestion profile on muscle metabolism remains undefined.

Objective:

We determined the effect of Bolus vs. Spread EAA feeding in young men and hypothesized that muscle-full is regulated by a dose-, not delivery profile–, dependent mechanism.

Methods:

We provided 16 young healthy men with 15 g mixed-EAA, either as a single dose (“Bolus” n = 8) or in 4 fractions at 45-min intervals (“Spread” n = 8). Plasma insulin and EAA concentrations were assayed by ELISA and ion-exchange chromatography, respectively. Limb blood flow by was determined by Doppler ultrasound, muscle microvascular flow by Sonovue (Bracco) contrast-enhanced ultrasound, and phosphorylation of mammalian target of rapamycin complex 1 substrates by immunoblotting. Intermittent muscle biopsies were taken to quantify myofibrillar-bound 13C6-phenylalanine to determine muscle protein synthesis (MPS).

Results:

Bolus feeding achieved rapid insulinemia (13.6 μIU ⋅ mL−1, 25 min after commencement of feeding), aminoacidemia (∼2500 μM at 45 min), and capillary recruitment (+45% at 45 min), whereas Spread feeding achieved attenuated insulin responses, gradual low-amplitude aminoacidemia (peak: ∼1500 μM at 135 min), and no detectable capillary recruitment (all P < 0.01 vs. Bolus). Despite these differences, identical anabolic responses were observed; fasting fractional synthetic rates of 0.054% ⋅ h−1 (Bolus) and 0.066% ⋅ h−1 (Spread) increased to 0.095% and 0.104% ⋅ h−1 (no difference in increment or final values between regimens). With both Spread and Bolus feeding strategies, a latency of at least 90 min was observed before an upswing in MPS was evident. Similarly with both feeding strategies, MPS returned to fasting rates by 180 min despite elevated circulating EAAs.

Conclusion: 

These data do not support EAA delivery profile as an important determinant of anabolism in young men at rest, nor rapid aminoacidemia/leucinemia as being a key factor in maximizing MPS.
A Dose- rather than Delivery Profile–Dependent Mechanism Regulates the “Muscle-Full” Effect in Response to Oral Essential Amino Acid Intake in Young Men J. Nutr. December 10, 2014. 

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/earl....full.pdf+html
__________________

 

Quote:
after a short, latent period of about half an hour, muscle protein synthesis is initially rapidly stimulated but then there appears to be a switch off – a tachyphylaxis – in response to amino acids), which results in the synthetic rate falling. It must also, presumably, result in diversion of amino acids away to catabolism in the liver, by ureagenesis and gluconeogenesis. This ‘muscle-full’ behaviour, together with the inability to stimulate muscle amino acid synthesis continuously by pouring in endogenous amino acids, explains why it is impossible to increase muscle size simply by eating (although the burden of weight carried by obese individuals does help to stimulate muscle hypertrophy!).

Experimental Physiology, 90, 427-436. July 1 2005.

 

This includes all forms of protein, not only EAA's.


http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/92/5/1080.long

post #50023 of 57262
Quote:
Originally Posted by conceptionist View Post

It is easier to build muscle on a caloric surplus since the extra energy makes it easier to train hard and get progression in the gym. That said, the extra calories themselves from fat and carbs do not build more muscle given that the protein intake is met. 

Maybe not directly, but you just said it yourself, eating more will increase progression in the gym, thus building more muscle faster.

Is there a threshold where more calories won't equate to more energy to be able to train harder and progress faster? Yes, course.

Is 25 pounds of weight (fat+fluid+muscle_ gained in 2 years decent? Yes! But don't kid yourself thinking that you couldn't have added more muscle mass if you ate more and trained harder. You seem to try to adopt this pseudo-lean gains approach to gaining mass. Putting on a little fat but also a little bit of muscle, instead of gaining more of each and then just shedding the fat afterwards.


post #50024 of 57262
I agree with Mike. I'm such a sad sap of shitty genetics and being a general pansy, why bother stacking the deck against myself when it comes to putting on muscles. I've used is protocol for about a year 1/2 and it's simple and it works.

I'm starting a linear progression today after doing high volume for awihle. Feeling good because last week I squatted without a belt what I did at the end of my last LP.
post #50025 of 57262
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrchariybrown View Post

Maybe not directly, but you just said it yourself, eating more will increase progression in the gym, thus building more muscle faster.

Is there a threshold where more calories won't equate to more energy to be able to train harder and progress faster? Yes, course.

Is 25 pounds of weight (fat+fluid+muscle_ gained in 2 years decent? Yes! But don't kid yourself thinking that you couldn't have added more muscle mass if you ate more and trained harder. You seem to try to adopt this pseudo-lean gains approach to gaining mass. Putting on a little fat but also a little bit of muscle, instead of gaining more of each and then just shedding the fat afterwards.

Oh yeah, I know that I could've gained my 25 pounds faster. As I wrote in my progress post I deliberately stayed on maintenance from june to december 2013. I could've bulked those months but chose not to for various reasons.

The study I posted says one thing and Mike says another thing. There are many conflicting studies. I have read some of Mikes stuff and I think some of the things he recommends are questionable.

Also, the whole study I just posted says exacty that you will not gain more muscle if you eat more calories, when your protein requirements are already met. So I would perhaps not have gained more muscle by eating more. More weight overall sure, but not more muscle for certain.

This is not really relevant to the discussion, but I do know that I could not have trained any harder last year.

Edit: I admit there is some chance I could've gained more muscle if I simply ate more. "First gainers" and those who are naturally skinny (and have never been fat before) are said to benefit from just eating more. Everyone else is not believed to benefit from it.
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