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Random health and exercise thoughts - Page 3233

post #48481 of 57259
Quote:
Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post
 

Question for you guys though... Is frequency better than a dedicated day? I.e. am I better off dedicating a day to arms and doing 2-3 exercises for bis/tris or better off doing one 5x10 superset for both 3-4 times a week? Potentially two exercises on some days. 

 

My triceps have blown up since I started benching and doing various other presses/tricep work 4 times a week. 

 

I don't work my biceps as frequently. They get 3-5 set curls twice a week. So they haven't grown much at all in the last 6 months or so, but I don't care much. I don't put much effort into bicep work so I think the progress is representative of that.

post #48482 of 57259

I'd say the latter. As long as you're switching up schemes (ie/ don't do 5x10 every time).

 

I've always gotten the best results training bis/tris together but I always felt that an arm day was a waste of time. I generally focus on the pump with arms, get as much blood in there as you can. I go to failure a lot more often. Main day is a superset of 5 x failure at the end of upper body day (last time was 5xfailure of DB OH ext/EZ Bar curl).

Also do a superset of 2 diff exercises at the end of leg day (3x25 and 3x15 or something) and then do a bicep movement at the end of pull and tricep at the end of push, plus pullups/chins and cg bench/dips. Those are usually 2 separate movements with heavier weight since my arms already have a bit of pump from the chins and dips and rows and whatevers.

I probably hit them 5x a week now that I think about it.

post #48483 of 57259

I've been doing a lot of dumbbell work and I do bbbp with shoulder width grip for triceps once a week. 

 

My arm day would probably be 2-3 exercises for 5x10 with arms, shoulder prehab work, and core work. So it's not a dedicated arm day per-se.

 

I'm also thinking of doing less work for my back and splitting leg day into two doing one with shoulders and one with chest only. 


Trying to not need an entire new wardrobe at this point. My back has grown pretty fast and I'm hoping to just tighten things up without adding much more width.

post #48484 of 57259
Quote:
Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post

Haha yeah, I weigh more than @GraphicNovelty
, but I look like a twig next to him.

The quest for 16 inch gunz continues. I think I just hit/passed 15 for this go-around. Hoping to still make 16 by the new year.


Question for you guys though... Is frequency better than a dedicated day? I.e. am I better off dedicating a day to arms and doing 2-3 exercises for bis/tris or better off doing one 5x10 superset for both 3-4 times a week? Potentially two exercises on some days. 
Yea its better to do less more frequently... I.e. a 5x10 superset 3x/week is pretty fucking good

Just have to figure out how to balance that with other lifting in general. I have been holding back on arms to save it for benching but now I'm kinda like fuck it.
post #48485 of 57259
Quote:
Not all muscles heal or go through their growth curves at the same rate. Some muscles take much more damage and, likely due in part to their size and architecture, both take longer to heal and grow for longer after a training session. This means that for advanced trainers, not all muscles should be trained at the same frequency.
This point has been echoed by Brett Contreras and Dr. Fred Hatfield in various forms (esp the latter).
In my experience, hamstrings and chest can only really be trained HARD (with enough overload to maximally grow) once a week, and the other weekly workout is best served as a less stimulative and more recovery-oriented session.
Quads, glutes, triceps, and back can be trained sufficiently hard twice per week in my experience.
Rear delts, traps, medial delts, and the forearm flexors (biceps, etc...) I've actually found the best results with 3-5 sessions per week.
A beginning guide to frequency structure can be soreness... how sore do pecs get from an average session of training? REALLY SORE, thus they probably need less frequent work. How sore do your biceps get? Well, not very, and not for very long, which likely points to more frequent work being best.
I'd be VERY SKEPTICAL of any routine that just trained all muscle groups once a week... not all muscles take that long to heal, and you end up just treading water. As well, training ALL muscles 3-4x per week might mean that you disrupt so little homeostasis each time, you never truly present the best overload and not as much growth likely occurs
post #48486 of 57259

Soreness is a really stupid way to gauge anything.

post #48487 of 57259

Sidenote: If you guys need basic clothes, gap is having some great sales because of a disappointing season so far. Might pick up some jeans/work khakis.

post #48488 of 57259
Quote:
Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post

Soreness is a really stupid way to gauge anything.
Are you disagreeing with the mighty Dr Israetel?
post #48489 of 57259
Quote:
Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post
 

Soreness is a really stupid way to gauge anything.

 

I actually disagree with this.

I know it's most common to say that a pump and/or soreness are poor measures for a "good" training session, but I think it totally depends on your goals and what you are training for. Also, from a simply logic point of view - if 5 sets of barbell bench elicits a tiny pump and no residual DOMS, yet 5 sets of incline dumbell gives you a butt-chest bump and lingering DOMS for 1-2 days then there has to be something to that.

As usual though this only really applies to bodybuilding/physique athletes.

post #48490 of 57259

Soreness is only a gauge of the system being trained. Do a shit ton of reps with a lighter weight and you'll be sore the next day. If you do a 4x8 or whatever with a much heavier weight, you might not be.

 

So high reps with a lighter weight is better now?

post #48491 of 57259
Quote:
Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post
 

Soreness is only a gauge of the system being trained. Do a shit ton of reps with a lighter weight and you'll be sore the next day. If you do a 4x8 or whatever with a much heavier weight, you might not be.

 

So high reps with a lighter weight is better now?

If you always do 5x100 then you wont be sore after a while. If you always do 4x8 then you won't be sore after a while. You will adapt to everything. Doing high reps with low weight isn't going to create soreness every time.

Also, the idea of training is to... train.

So if that is evidence that the system has been trained then isn't that exactly what you are looking for?

Again, unless of course you are a PL or similar who is training movement patterns more so than individual muscles. But like I said early, this is also why I think bb bench is a huge waste of time (for me, personally). I get nothing out of it in terms of pump and stimulation, using a slight incline/decline and switching to DB's I get significantly better pump and "feel" for the chest. Also, the better I can "feel" a movement the more DOMS it creates. I don't understand how that wouldn't mean it's providing a better form of stimulation. I mean, yeah you can do a shit ton of drop sets or whatever other intensity techniques and you will get sore, or you can do a movement that you haven't done in a while and probably get sore, or your first session back after a lay-off = sorenss, but I'm talking about experienced lifters who know what they are doing and have experimented with different movements, reps, sets, techniques etc and have a pretty good idea of what works for them.

post #48492 of 57259
IDK I think "training by DOMS" is kinda BS too. All that matters in lifting IMO is adding weight to the bar, mastering form, not hurting yourself and having fun... u dont need chronic DOMS to do that.
post #48493 of 57259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool The Kid View Post

IDK I think "training by DOMS" is kinda BS too. All that matters in lifting IMO is adding weight to the bar, mastering form, not hurting yourself and having fun... u dont need chronic DOMS to do that.

Right, and that's not what I'm saying. I see how it might have come across like that though.

 

All I was really getting at was that saying "the pump or DOMS don't mean anything" seems pretty illogical. It doesn't mean everything, but there is pretty clearly some significant feedback to gain from it.

post #48494 of 57259

Using DOMS to gauge your training seems ridiculous. Are you going to switch routines when you stop getting DOMS? Is lack of muscle soreness a clue that it's time to change routines?
If you do something different in the gym and get DOMS every time you lift, is that better?

 

Does the fabled sheiko program use DOMS as a guide?

post #48495 of 57259
Quote:
Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post
 

Using DOMS to gauge your training seems ridiculous. Are you going to switch routines when you stop getting DOMS? Is lack of muscle soreness a clue that it's time to change routines?
If you do something different in the gym and get DOMS every time you lift, is that better?

 

Does the fabled sheiko program use DOMS as a guide?

 

C'mon man, did you read anything I wrote past the word DOMS?

EDIT: your last sentence answers my own question.


Edited by OccultaVexillum - 10/22/14 at 12:07pm
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