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Random health and exercise thoughts - Page 2764

post #41446 of 57260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldsnap View Post

SS is pretty awesome. I saw a few true beginners start SS, most of them quit but the ones who ran it for a year straight and now are onto something different and made some awesome progress. A lot better than the dudes that come in and do the same bench and dumbell shoulder press routine for months on end. SS is just an easy target because people are sissies and half ass programs all the time then go complain on the internet about it.

It's good in that it gets people to dead n squat where they otherwise wouldn't, but yea if you want to compete in PL or not have the physique of a female softball short stop it could use improvement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldsnap View Post

TK doing the bodybuilding bulk/cut stuff how long should a cut last at 1 lb a week? I guess you could potentially cut too long and accidentally loose gains.
Im hoping to be able to cut down at that rate for a good year or so with some breajs. Its not so much how long you cut as much as how fast you cut and how lean you get
post #41447 of 57260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldsnap View Post

TK doing the bodybuilding bulk/cut stuff how long should a cut last at 1 lb a week? I guess you could potentially cut too long and accidentally loose gains.

I can't speak for everyone but I start to get strength losses around 10% and lower BF. Just being a lower weight will make you weaker, though. 1lb a week is a pretty mild cut so you should be able to do it for quite some time. For reference I do -1.5lb/wk for 16 weeks and that's about the upper limit as far as how fast/long I can go.
post #41448 of 57260
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeeKay View Post

I can't speak for everyone but I start to get strength losses around 10% and lower BF. Just being a lower weight will make you weaker, though. 1lb a week is a pretty mild cut so you should be able to do it for quite some time. For reference I do -1.5lb/wk for 16 weeks and that's about the upper limit as far as how fast/long I can go.

Gotcha. I will keep going then. I started in Feb, so about two months. I'll go another two. I've already dropped into the 83kg weight class while adding a good amount to my total, fun stuff. My recovery just sucks, sore a good 3 days after any workout. That's even with carbs cushioned around lifting to promote better recovery.
post #41449 of 57260
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraphicNovelty View Post

if you actually do SS right you will look like shit though.

The /fitness circlejerk over SS is just ridiculous. I had to stop visiting that website because of the horrendous advice and hivemind over there.

Typical post is some noob saying, "Well I played football in HS but now I'm overweight and want to get in shape and look better."

Then 50 replies from unaesthetic fitters suggesting SS, GOMAD, and 600 "don't skip leg day!!!!" bullshit posts. It's just horrendous.

They always say shit like, "you need to build a base." WTF is a base? A fat ass and stick arms?
post #41450 of 57260

I've said this before but I don't think most people actually read the book.  The real program has you doing squats, deads, bench, OHP, and power cleans, and on top of that it has a whole accessory section that includes all the upper body shit that people think is lacking in SS, including things like curls and pullups.  It also doesn't mandate GOMAD, it says if you're finding yourself staying at the same weight start drinking whole milk, up to a gallon a day if necessary.

 

SS is just an easy target because so many people pull the cliff notes program from the wiki and then complain that it's not complete (which /r/fittit holds a lot of blame for).  I still refer to it if i'm having trouble with a lift.

post #41451 of 57260
Thread Starter 
405 x 5 deadlift coming next week, what does that translate into a 1rm? (I don't want to do it.)
post #41452 of 57260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eason View Post

405 x 5 deadlift coming next week, what does that translate into a 1rm? I don't want to do it.

Unfortunately it doesn't translate.

I know dudes who do 405x5 and can get 5 plates and others who can't pull 435 for a single.
post #41453 of 57260
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingJulien View Post

I've said this before but I don't think most people actually read the book.  The real program has you doing squats, deads, bench, OHP, and power cleans, and on top of that it has a whole accessory section that includes all the upper body shit that people think is lacking in SS, including things like curls and pullups.  It also doesn't mandate GOMAD, it says if you're finding yourself staying at the same weight start drinking whole milk, up to a gallon a day if necessary.

SS is just an easy target because so many people pull the cliff notes program from the wiki and then complain that it's not complete (which /r/fittit holds a lot of blame for).  I still refer to it if i'm having trouble with a lift.


I love seeing uncoordinated brahs "powercleaning" 30kg with a form that kind of resembles what it looks like when you bend over a really skinny tree and then let it snap up thinking it's gonna make them explosive as fuck.
post #41454 of 57260
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuji View Post


I love seeing uncoordinated brahs "powercleaning" 30kg with a form that kind of resembles what it looks like when you bend over a really skinny tree and then let it snap up thinking it's gonna make them explosive as fuck.

 

Haha, this is kinda me.  Gotta start somewhere.

post #41455 of 57260
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingJulien View Post

I've said this before but I don't think most people actually read the book.  The real program has you doing squats, deads, bench, OHP, and power cleans, and on top of that it has a whole accessory section that includes all the upper body shit that people think is lacking in SS, including things like curls and pullups.  It also doesn't mandate GOMAD, it says if you're finding yourself staying at the same weight start drinking whole milk, up to a gallon a day if necessary.

SS is just an easy target because so many people pull the cliff notes program from the wiki and then complain that it's not complete (which /r/fittit holds a lot of blame for).  I still refer to it if i'm having trouble with a lift.

Accessory work is highly discouraged in the book. He's like "I know you're gonna want to do curls lol"

the whole mentality of the book is to make you strong, not look good.
post #41456 of 57260
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraphicNovelty View Post

Accessory work is highly discouraged in the book. He's like "I know you're gonna want to do curls lol"

the whole mentality of the book is to make you strong, not look good.

Fuck that. At this point in my life 70% of my lifts are accessory lifts.
post #41457 of 57260
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeeKay View Post

They always say shit like, "you need to build a base." WTF is a base? A fat ass and stick arms?
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingJulien View Post
 

I've said this before but I don't think most people actually read the book.  The real program has you doing squats, deads, bench, OHP, and power cleans, and on top of that it has a whole accessory section that includes all the upper body shit that people think is lacking in SS, including things like curls and pullups.  It also doesn't mandate GOMAD, it says if you're finding yourself staying at the same weight start drinking whole milk, up to a gallon a day if necessary.

 

SS is just an easy target because so many people pull the cliff notes program from the wiki and then complain that it's not complete (which /r/fittit holds a lot of blame for).  I still refer to it if i'm having trouble with a lift.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GraphicNovelty View Post


Accessory work is highly discouraged in the book. He's like "I know you're gonna want to do curls lol"

the whole mentality of the book is to make you strong, not look good.

 

You gotta view Starting Strength from what it aims to do.

From my understanding, it has never claimed to build a super nice physique for someone beyond their noob gains. It's targeted for rank beginners and makes those people actually squat, dead and ohp often. Its also a great program if you lift weights as complementary training for a sport. If you play football or whatever, SS is gonna be a lot more productive for your goals and to get higher performance on the sports field than doing a BB-esque split with tricep pushdowns and leg raises.

 

About building a base:

I def think there's some merit to focus on building strength with lower reps before you start doing more hypertrophy based training in the higher rep ranges. For a weak guy, 3x5 squats with 135 is gonna make him grow more muscle than 3x12 with 80 pounds. If he can get his strength up by focusing on lower reps with a strength program such as SS, he'll eventually be able to do those 3 sets of 12 with a decently heavy weight. I think its easier to progressive overload with SS and lower rep ranges than on a very high volume split protocol.

 

With that said, I think everyone can do some accessory work for their arms, shoulders or whatever and some of SS followers praise it too much. 

 

 

The progression of a powerlifters training tends to go something like this over the years, from what I've read:

 

Rank beginner: learning the basics with minimal work if it distracts your progress on the main lifts. Just enough volume so he can recover until next session and progressive overload. SS is good here.

Beginner-intermediate: Muscle mass is often the limitation. Introduce more accessory work to build up a higher workload tolerance, induce more hypertrophy and to not get muscle imbalances (my coach said this)

Intermediate: More tailored training to personal weaknesses. Usually has to wave intensity and volume in blocks to get stronger. More focus on the main lifts and technique refinement.

Advanced: Physique is often balanced so with no major weakpoints so accessory work isn't as needed any longer. The weights can also be so heavy at this point that the frequency has to go down, but overall volume is at its highest (Malanichev does pretty much no accessory work for instance).

post #41458 of 57260
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingJulien View Post

Haha, this is kinda me.  Gotta start somewhere.


I don't really get why most people do them. Do you care about getting more explosive or something? I think most people would be better off using there time for something more inline with their goals.
post #41459 of 57260

If I'm losing strength on a cut it's probably because I'm not getting the right nutrients? Or is it because I'm trying to do the same volume as when I was bulking?

post #41460 of 57260
You need to focus on progressive overload so if you can't recover properly, reduce volume. You could also just reduce the reps per set and increase sets for the same volume. With a given weight, I def find 5x3 easier than 3x5.

The less you eat the worse your training, and specifically your volume tolerance and recovery will be. So consider a smaller deficit. If you're getting more than enough protein (about bodyweight in grams) swap some protein for extra carbs. More carbs = more energy for most people.
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